Neumann KH420 Review (Studio Monitor)

[DWI]

You can find a few pictures of KH420 in private homes, for example in this thread:

Neumann KH 420 - Seite 12 - aktives-hoeren.de

Example (not my picture - source)

I suppose if you want a picture of KH420 in a domestic setting, a German active speaker forum is your best bet!

There are a owners and they agree they are not exactly pretty and the matching subwoofer is problematic because it is so big.

 

[Ajax]

Thanks for another excellent review Amir. You really do provide a wonderful service.

Interesting that so many members' comments refer to incorporating subs with such a large monitor, one that obviously goes very low on its own with high SPL, and does not "need" them.

If like me you play music at home below 86db for 99% of the time, and never higher than 90db, then would it not make more sense for a retail consumer to buy a smaller less expensive monitor from the likes of Neumann, Genelec or Adam and then add a couple of subs, crossing over at say 60hz?

I have always felt that high quality bookshelf speakers, or small monitors, carefully integrated with subs give a better bang for the buck than larger more expensive towers/speakers.

 

[antennaguru]

I am not in the least bit interested in spending my money on active loudspeakers, especially internally tri-amplified.

In my past experience there will be a day in the future when the internal amplification fails, and when that day comes I have already learned the bitter truth that the correct replacement amplifier(s) will no longer be available from the OEM. This one will be even more complex to replace with what plate amps will be available for purchase at that time, and that will not fit/work properly, such that $11,000 becomes a total loss (including the cost of the speaker grills, but not the sales tax). I would rather buy passive speakers that will last several decades and are simple to replace the amplification for.

OTOH, if the OEM is offering a 20 year warranty, or even a solid guarantee in writing that replacement internal amplifiers will be stocked in inventory for at least 20 years, then I might become interested in purchasing active speakers. Funny though that none offer such a warranty/guarantee. I guess active loudspeakers are just another example of premature obsolescence.

FWIW, JBL and EV already left me stranded in this way...

 

[DanTheMan]

I think my ADAM monitors came with a 7 year warranty which has long past, but everything is still working beautifully. They are 11 years old now, but I had those same worries when I bought them. Of course replacement parts are also still available for them, but overpriced. This model/line is no longer made. If I had it to do over again, I’d get the same. Several of my pieces of Home theater equipment have failed in that time. Particularly amps and BlueRay players. None of my ADAM monitors have. My Marantz brain has been having issues with the volume knob for years. Works fine from the remote. It’s of a similar vintage. Now I’ve probably jinxed them.

 

[lherrm]

I am not in the least bit interested in spending my money on active loudspeakers, especially internally tri-amplified.

In my past experience there will be a day in the future when the internal amplification fails, and when that day comes I have already learned the bitter truth that the correct replacement amplifier(s) will no longer be available from the OEM. This one will be even more complex to replace with what plate amps will be available for purchase at that time, and that will not fit/work properly, such that $11,000 becomes a total loss (including the cost of the speaker grills, but not the sales tax). I would rather buy passive speakers that will last several decades and are simple to replace the amplification for.

OTOH, if the OEM is offering a 20 year warranty, or even a solid guarantee in writing that replacement internal amplifiers will be stocked in inventory for at least 20 years, then I might become interested in purchasing active speakers. Funny though that none offer such a warranty/guarantee. I guess active loudspeakers are just another example of premature obsolescence.

FWIW, JBL and EV already left me stranded in this way...

No brand offers 20 years of warranty.
But regarding Genelec : https://www.genelec.com/product-warranty-lifetime

5 years minimum of spare parts after the production is discontinued.
If we take for example the 8260A (https://www.genelec.com/previous-models/8260a), it has been serviceable at LEAST from 2010 (first release) to 2019+5=2024, so 14 years, which is, in my opinion, not so bad.
Besides, if you account depreciation, the loss in case of total failure and impossibility to repair is not the amount of the paid price, but the residual value.

 

[Frank Dernie]

“When music professionals listen to music, they do it with a different mindset than music consumers. Enthusiasts simply want to enjoy the music they love as best as they can. It doesn’t really matter if the sound they hear is an accurate reproduction of what the artist intended. All that matters is the listeners’ subjective impression. Most music consumers therefore prefer speakers that seem to enhance their listening experience.”

Neumann if anyone should know, they’ve been making recording equipment for almost a century. Im not sure I’ve read such a clear explanation of the difference between professional monitors and home stereo speakers. Neumann clearly don’t think it’s a myth.

I think what Neumann are saying is that whilst pro customers require accurate reproduction domestic customers can choose products with as much or little colouration as appeals to them since they only have themselves to please.
I would argue that high fidelity implies accurate reproduction but in reality it doesn’t matter in a domestic setting as long as the owner is happy.

It is certainly the case that these speakers are both accurate and will suffer from less room reflection induced frequency response errors than most and if positioned to minimise the magnitude of room mode excitation (not many domestic customers have this freedom) will sound more accurate and go louder than most speakers can.

 

[DWI]

I think my ADAM monitors came with a 7 year warranty which has long past, but everything is still working beautifully. They are 11 years old now, but I had those same worries when I bought them. Of course replacement parts are also still available for them, but overpriced. This model/line is no longer made. If I had it to do over again, I’d get the same. Several of my pieces of Home theater equipment have failed in that time. Particularly amps and BlueRay players. None of my ADAM monitors have. My Marantz brain has been having issues with the volume knob for years. Works fine from the remote. It’s of a similar vintage. Now I’ve probably jinxed them.

ADAM offer an extended warranty.

Extend Your Warranty To 5 Years - ADAM Audio

You have the possibility to extend the warranty period of all your ADAM products by up to three years to a total of five years...

www.adam-audio.com

They do what seems a rather nice built-in DSP engine in their home stereo speakers.

 

[Frgirard]

No brand offers 20 years of warranty.
But regarding Genelec : https://www.genelec.com/product-warranty-lifetime
View attachment 204057
5 years minimum of spare parts after the production is discontinued.
If we take for example the 8260A (https://www.genelec.com/previous-models/8260a), it has been serviceable at LEAST from 2010 (first release) to 2019+5=2024, so 14 years, which is, in my opinion, not so bad.
Besides, if you account depreciation, the loss in case of total failure and impossibility to repair is not the amount of the paid price, but the residual value.

it was a time where Cabasse offered a lifetime warranty.
it was a time where Classe Audio offered a lifetime warranty.
Unrealistic lifetime warranty for the Cabasse VTA models.

 

[Pearljam5000]

Pro studio equipment is more reliable than home hi-fi so the warranty is less important

 

[Frgirard]

I think what Neumann are saying is that whilst pro customers require accurate reproduction domestic customers can choose products with as much or little colouration as appeals to them since they only have themselves to please.
I would argue that high fidelity implies accurate reproduction but in reality it doesn’t matter in a domestic setting as long as the owner is happy.

It is certainly the case that these speakers are both accurate and will suffer from less room reflection induced frequency response errors than most and if positioned to minimise the magnitude of room mode excitation (not many domestic customers have this freedom) will sound more accurate and go louder than most speakers can.

Rob Schnapf mixe on Harbeth Model 30.

In hifi there are no guide line : vinyl, tube, colored or uncolored speaker....

 

[Digby]

I doubt a speaker with built in amplification is more reliable than a similar speaker without it.

 

[Frgirard]

Pro studio equipment is more reliable than home hi-fi so the warranty is less important

Ask studio using focal speakers !

I doubt a speaker with built in amplification is more reliable than a similar speaker without it.

it's depens the brand like all products on this planet

 

[Frank Dernie]

I am not in the least bit interested in spending my money on active loudspeakers, especially internally tri-amplified.

In my past experience there will be a day in the future when the internal amplification fails, and when that day comes I have already learned the bitter truth that the correct replacement amplifier(s) will no longer be available from the OEM. This one will be even more complex to replace with what plate amps will be available for purchase at that time, and that will not fit/work properly, such that $11,000 becomes a total loss (including the cost of the speaker grills, but not the sales tax). I would rather buy passive speakers that will last several decades and are simple to replace the amplification for.

OTOH, if the OEM is offering a 20 year warranty, or even a solid guarantee in writing that replacement internal amplifiers will be stocked in inventory for at least 20 years, then I might become interested in purchasing active speakers. Funny though that none offer such a warranty/guarantee. I guess active loudspeakers are just another example of premature obsolescence.

FWIW, JBL and EV already left me stranded in this way...

I think it depends on the design.
IME analogue HiFi electronics has been pretty reliable and my only concern is with more recent designs using surface mount components and specialist ICs. Otherwise HiFi electronics is repairable as long as the individual components, or equivalent, remain available.

My agreement with you is complete for any DSP active speaker where the DSP parts may be obsolete and nla in short order, but an active crossover with 3 class AB amps like the KH420 is likely to be both reliable and repairable in the event of a failure.

 

[Frgirard]

Thanks for another excellent review Amir. You really do provide a wonderful service.

Interesting that so many members' comments refer to incorporating subs with such a large monitor, one that obviously goes very low on its own with high SPL, and does not "need" them.

If like me you play music at home below 86db for 99% of the time, and never higher than 90db, then would it not make more sense for a retail consumer to buy a smaller less expensive monitor from the likes of Neumann, Genelec or Adam and then add a couple of subs, crossing over at say 60hz?

I have always felt that high quality bookshelf speakers, or small monitors, carefully integrated with subs give a better bang for the buck than larger more expensive towers/speakers.

a K420 has a woofer far from the floor and a sub can help to treat the floor cancelation or back wall, celling cancellation.

Knowing my room and the KH420s,two sub it's an idea that comes to mind..
It is out of the question that I pay a sub 2000 euro where BK does as well for less than 1000 euro.

 

[stevenswall]

Why would someone select this over a Genelec 8361? Why would someone select the 8361 instead?

What measurements or features or engineering aspects are better on this?

 

[Frgirard]

Why would someone select this over a Genelec 8361? Why would someone select the 8361 instead?

What measurements or features or engineering aspects are better on this?

For me the distance woofer floor and woofer celling.
At this level, the measurements are for Bateman or an Avenger.

 

[Blockader]

Why would someone select this over a Genelec 8361? Why would someone select the 8361 instead?

What measurements or features or engineering aspects are better on this?

They cost 25% less in EU while performing almost at the same level as 8361's. They have slightly higher SPL output.

They are easier to flash mount to deal with diffractions and SBIR.

 

[Frgirard]

They cost 25% less in EU while performing almost at the same level as 8361's. They have slightly higher SPL output.

They are easier to flash mount to deal with diffractions and SBIR.

Genelec sell the feature to flush mounted the 8361.

In a living room, the flush mounting is unrealistic.
in a dedicated room, it's the best solution.

 

[Somafunk]

Neumann themselves sum it up perfectly:

NEUMANN

Neumann html template

www.neumann.com

They say:
“When music professionals listen to music, they do it with a different mindset than music consumers. Enthusiasts simply want to enjoy the music they love as best as they can. It doesn’t really matter if the sound they hear is an accurate reproduction of what the artist intended. All that matters is the listeners’ subjective impression. Most music consumers therefore prefer speakers that seem to enhance their listening experience.”

Neumann if anyone should know, they’ve been making recording equipment for almost a century. Im not sure I’ve read such a clear explanation of the difference between professional monitors and home stereo speakers. Neumann clearly don’t think it’s a myth.

It doesn’t mean you can‘t set up your home stereo like a recording studio, as you seem to have done, but the vast majority of people without dedicated listening rooms don’t. FWIW, I don’t have any veneer on my speakers or any shiny audio (rather dull units hidden away controlled remotely), so your comments seem somewhat prejudiced.

So all that talk you read about with hifi reviews “These (insert speaker of choice) reproduce the sound as the artist/producer/engineer intended" is a moot point if the average hi-fi consumer doesn’t care about accuracy in reproduction.

My comment regarding shiny veneers/glitzy equipment wasn’t directed at yourself, apologies if my intention wasn’t clearly defined.

I think what Neumann are saying is that whilst pro customers require accurate reproduction domestic customers can choose products with as much or little colouration as appeals to them since they only have themselves to please.
I would argue that high fidelity implies accurate reproduction but in reality it doesn’t matter in a domestic setting as long as the owner is happy.

Frank said it better than I did.

 

[Pearljam5000]

Why would someone select this over a Genelec 8361? Why would someone select the 8361 instead?

What measurements or features or engineering aspects are better on this?

I would choose the 8361 anyway.
1. It's a coaxial and I like it more than a traditional 3-way
2. Aluminum cabinets
3.GLM