Neumann KH420 Review (Studio Monitor)

[Adi777]

They take digital input in. They have their own AD / DA conversion units inside(which are supposedly have above 96 SINAD performance which is CD quality), filters to apply room correction, FIR phase linearization filters and a processor to conduct communication between their room correction software & subwoofer. (and more)

they have also good transient response which means they have low group delay. Both Genelec and Neumann subwoofers have lower group than 1 cycle per frequency, for example Neumann's KH 750's have 34ms delay at 20hz where each cycle takes 50ms time to complete.

So, that's subwoofers are more compatible with speakers from the same company vs subwoofers like Rythmik, JTR, and another?
I ask, because someone on this forum was writing that pro subwoofers are too expensive for the performance offered - or something like this.

 

[CtheArgie]

Wow, you need to get out some!

Find a Caterham owner, ask to borrow for 20 minutes and have possibly the most fun you can have on a road.

On the road I’m on a Pinarello.

 

[Frgirard]

They take digital input in. They have their own AD / DA conversion units inside(which are supposedly have above 96 SINAD performance which is CD quality), filters to apply room correction, FIR phase linearization filters and a processor to conduct communication between their room correction software & subwoofer. (and more)

they have also good transient response which means they have low group delay. Both Genelec and Neumann subwoofers have lower group than 1 cycle per frequency, for example Neumann's KH 750's have 34ms delay at 20hz where each cycle takes 50ms time to complete.

View attachment 203792

It's a myth.
The KH 810 805 and 870 are analogic subwoofer.
The peq behind this three sub and the kh420 are unusable.
Too imprecise. You have to take a measurement each time you touch a button. The settings are not lockable. On the kh420 you have to move the enclosure at each setting or deport the amp.

 

[617]

It's interesting that in the high end monitor space, you tend to only get the bass extension with tons of output. Makes sense I suppose but I'd rather have performance down to say 30hz in a more modestly sized/priced speaker rather than paying for output capabilities which are excessive for any domestic use (it seems like these larger monitors really are for live sound levels).

Great performance and I have to say I love the looks as well.

 

[Frgirard]

It's interesting that in the high end monitor space, you tend to only get the bass extension with tons of output. Makes sense I suppose but I'd rather have performance down to say 30hz in a more modestly sized/priced speaker rather than paying for output capabilities which are excessive for any domestic use (it seems like these larger monitors really are for live sound levels).

Great performance and I have to say I love the looks as well.

This is a studio monitors use in room with low decay in bass.
Without a sub, you will have distortion.

 

[Tangband]

@Tangband

The 800Hz region is undoubtedly better on the Neumann KH420.

Ok, what you say seems to be true. The KH420 have apparently a slightly better bassdriver than the KH310.
Not equal in quality.

 

[DJBonoBobo]

Unfortunately not, K+H used to have a fantastic online archive of all their products but the Sennheiser group unfortunately shut it down after they took over.

You can still find some info via the web archive: https://web.archive.org/web/2018121...itoring_discontinued-monitors_studio-products

 

[abdo123]

It's interesting that in the high end monitor space, you tend to only get the bass extension with tons of output. Makes sense I suppose but I'd rather have performance down to say 30hz in a more modestly sized/priced speaker rather than paying for output capabilities which are excessive for any domestic use (it seems like these larger monitors really are for live sound levels).

Great performance and I have to say I love the looks as well.

The KH310 with its sealed design can do ~90dBSPL full range. But it's like the only design i know that can pull this off. It's also the only sealed design i know in a monitor of its size.

 

[Blockader]

It's a myth.
The KH 810 805 and 870 are analogic subwoofer.
The peq behind this three sub and the kh420 are unusable.
Too imprecise. You have to take a measurement each time you touch a button. The settings are not lockable. On the kh420 you have to move the enclosure at each setting or deport the amp.

Sorry I didn't completely made it clear that I was only referring to DSP subwoofers of Genelec and Neumann.(Adam audio has DSP subwoofers too?)

 

[Tangband]

I did show the same measurement....

…yes, but at the same screen so its easier to compare.

 

[Frank Dernie]

Choosing between the 8361 and KH420 is the audiophile version of Sophie's choice

Easy for me. I like the look of these, the Genelecs would have to be behind a curtain.

 

[Adi777]

Okey, so it's more propably, that Neumann KH 420 will sound better with Neumann KH 870 versus "typical" subwoofers?

 

[Tangband]

The KH310 with its sealed design can do ~90dBSPL full range. But it's like the only design i know that can pull this off. It's also the only sealed design i know in a monitor of its size.

This monitor being sealed is also probably much easier to integrate with a subwoofer than a bassreflex construction. The bass quality might also be better with the sealed speaker. The SPL with low distortion ( less than 1 % ) is about 100 dB from 100 -15000 Hz which is very loud for only one loudspeaker. Crossing it at 100 Hz with active subs, it gonna play loud and clean.
So, slightly higher distortion in the lower midrange than KH420, but maybe other advantages, such as easy to integrate with subs and lower group delay ? Swings and roundabouts.

It should now be clear for everyone that you cant read 100% of the soundquality with only measurements….

 

[Frgirard]

This monitor being sealed is also probably much easier to integrate with a subwoofer than a bassreflex construction. The bass quality might also be better with the sealed speaker. The SPL with low distortion ( less than 1 % ) is about 100 dB from 100 -15000 Hz which is very loud for only one loudspeaker. Crossing it at 100 Hz with active subs, it gonna play loud and clean.
So, slightly higher distortion in the lower midrange than KH420, but maybe other advantages, such as easy to integrate with subs and lower group delay ? Swings and roundabouts.

It should now be clear for everyone that you cant read 100% of the soundquality with only measurements….

I have a k+h o300. I used a kh810. I sold the kh810 and bought the kh420.
One 10' can not equal acousticly two 10': the woofer coupling.
One 10' can not equal in distortion and spl two 10'.

 

[Frank Dernie]

3 of these carefully positioned with 2 KH310 look ideal for my home theatre.

 

[Tangband]

I have a k+h o300. I used a kh810. I sold the kh810 and bought the kh420.
One 10' can not equal acousticly two 10': the woofer coupling.
One 10' can not equal in distortion and spl two 10'.

True, if the quality of the drivers and the amplifiers are equal.

 

[Tangband]

Regarding KH420 , here is distortion comparisons with the much smaller Genelec 8351.

 

[Frgirard]

Regarding KH420 , here is distortion comparisons with the much smaller Genelec 8351.View attachment 203807View attachment 203808

A good job by Genelec. I wrote in previous post, the kh420 in a typical professional room needs a sub.

 

[DWI]

The reality is that this speaker is neither designed for or marketed

This is fascinating! In my office I have two 310s running with two 750s. Yes, the bass makes your private parts shake. And now we get these incredible speakers for $11k. That include amplification.

So, this makes me wonder again why those who call themselves "audiophiles" avoid speakers like this. Maybe they are more interested in the visual appeal than the sound itself. If they were truly interested in sound, they shouldn't ignore these. Just think about it, the passive FR-30 for $30k or these for $11k! Bewildering.

1) You answered your own question, probably. In the scheme of loudspeakers, industrial cosmetics will not be many people's first choice of design, if the goal is integration within a typical domestic environment. One cannot simply discount that aspect, out of hand. Back in the day, JBL took their 'industrial' studio monitors and cosmeticized them for domestic consumption. Neumann could easily do that, for an extra thousand dollars. If they don't offer it, it is because the domestic scene is not their bag.

2) Pace the notion of 'true interest', it is similar to someone arguing how if a driver was truly interested in performance, they would seriously consider a Caterham Seven, whereas another might frown and say that anything less than a Hayabusa is slumming it. But the vast majority of drivers are looking for something a little more practical, and most folks prefer something enclosed, with air conditioning.

3) ASR is what you say, but then again, it's not like these 450s are inexpensive, although they are certainly not stupid.

The reality is that this speaker is neither designed for nor marketed for consumer use.

The basic sales pitch for this product is: "The KH 420 is designed for use as a mid-field or main monitor in stereo and multi-channel systems. It can be used in project, music, broadcast centers, and post production studios for tracking, mixing, and mastering."

You will not find any supplier suggesting it is sensible for domestic playback use.

If you look at professional reviews online, they say this speaker requires a lot of room treatment, which makes it a poor choice for a typical consumer set-up were that is not possible.

Neumann's own website says:

For a speaker this powerful, and expensive, I would expect in a typical domestic setting the listening position to be close to the limit or outside this specified working distance. Moreover, having these speakers at one end of a domestic room and the listening position near the other end is, but all accounts, going to be pretty terrible unless the room is well treated.

So, whilst this is clearly a superb studio monitor for professional use, for someone with a $10k+ budget and a nice big domestic listening room, this would seem to be a poor choice of speaker.

So there is good reason why they are not sold for consumer use and I did not see anyone online using them in a domestic setting.

So if you look at this review, for example, from a professional user near me (www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7M3A1FYucU), the Kii3 would be a much more sensible option and they are of course sold for domestic use.

With a large listening room, I would much prefer a speaker designed for domestic use (whether or not the FR-30) and I would expect it to perform better than a midfield monitor, even one with great measurements.

Plus this is dead ugly. Generally, domestic audio consumers pay for cosmetics because they don't want their houses invaded by horrible industrial products. There are horrible consumer products as well, but these give zero consideration to cosmetics, whilst the Kii 3 do.

 

[Frgirard]

The reality is that this speaker is neither designed for or marketed


The reality is that this speaker is neither designed for nor marketed for consumer use.

The basic sales pitch for this product is: "The KH 420 is designed for use as a mid-field or main monitor in stereo and multi-channel systems. It can be used in project, music, broadcast centers, and post production studios for tracking, mixing, and mastering."

You will not find any supplier suggesting it is sensible for domestic playback use.

If you look at professional reviews online, they say this speaker requires a lot of room treatment, which makes it a poor choice for a typical consumer set-up were that is not possible.

Neumann's own website says:
View attachment 203803
For a speaker this powerful, and expensive, I would expect in a typical domestic setting the listening position to be close to the limit or outside this specified working distance. Moreover, having these speakers at one end of a domestic room and the listening position near the other end is, but all accounts, going to be pretty terrible unless the room is well treated.

So, whilst this is clearly a superb studio monitor for professional use, for someone with a $10k+ budget and a nice big domestic listening room, this would seem to be a poor choice of speaker.

So there is good reason why they are not sold for consumer use and I did not see anyone online using them in a domestic setting.

So if you look at this review, for example, from a professional user near me (www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7M3A1FYucU), the Kii3 would be a much more sensible option and they are of course sold for domestic use.

With a large listening room, I would much prefer a speaker designed for domestic use (whether or not the FR-30) and I would expect it to perform better than a midfield monitor, even one with great measurements.

Plus this is dead ugly. Generally, domestic audio consumers pay for cosmetics because they don't want their houses invaded by horrible industrial products. There are horrible consumer products as well, but these give zero consideration to cosmetics, whilst the Kii 3 do.

The dichotomy pro/domestic is a myth.

Ugly ? It's an opinion as mine.