Topping LA90 Review (Integrated Amplifier)

[PeteL]

You will always have consumers who want “the best,” even when the benefits are illusory. In terms of the hi-fi industry, the hi-fi community, and the hi-fi press and internet reviewing corps, I’d rather have “the best” to be defined in terms of measurable, repeatable scientific evaluations than make-believe. Now, do *I* want “the best?” No, I do not see a need. We reached the limits of audibility a long, long time ago. I’d rather satisfice than maximize performance.

It's only the best based on very partial metrics tough, and not necessarily the most important, and not the only measurable ones neither. Illusory or not, it's still only the best based on your own chosen angle, so still based on subjectivity, on what is important for you, Not what is universally the only measure of performance. Yes I said measure.

 

[Billy Budapest]

It's only the best based on very partial metrics tough, and not necessarily the most important, and not the only measurable ones neither. Illusory or not, it's still only the best based on your own chosen angle, so still based on subjectivity, on what is important for you, Not what is universally the only measure of performance. Yes I said measure.

I wasn’t speaking specifically about this amp, I was speaking about using industry-wide (and community-wide and reviewer-wide) measurable, repeatable results vs. “junk science,” to use a term us lawyers are familiar with.

 

[amirm]

Distortion (except for 1% number) not shown, duration not shown. Pointless.

This is a power number with very specific criteria. AP analyzer hunts for this level of distortion by overdriving the amp and then back off. So the amp is being stressed well before this value is assessed. You are never going to push an amp into distortion the way the analyzer does.

So as far as I can see, the only thing pointless is your comment above.

 

[amirm]

Amir, I wonder if you could do bench testing for reliability as well and follow up on your reviews.

I can but we need to standardize on what that means. Last time I tried to do this, I blew up an amplifier that had no such track record in actual use in that manner.

 

[Overseas]

Back to the power source brick. I will make sure to put the amp on my lower shelf of the rack so the cable will allow the plug to reach the floor. I also keep my system the way it is installed, no moving around. So probably I am the use case target of Topping.

Also, I searched like crazy but am not able to find the link again, I recently read an article about shabby power connections in amps being this way by design, cannot reproduce the technical motivations, sorry.

 

[Billy Budapest]

Last time I tried to do this, I blew up an amplifier

That’s called the “John Atkinson effect.” LOL. Although he has a track record of destroying equipment under test.

 

[amirm]

Only complaint would be weird connectors???

FYI those connectors are actually quite flexible. You can use either XLR or 1/4 inch plugs.

 

[DDF]

I don’t think anyone denies that the “race” to decrease noise and distortion surpassed audibility ages ago. However, the pursuit of perfection is human nature (or perhaps a human failure). Advancing the state of the art wherein manufacturers are held to measurable scientific criteria is a more worthy goal than ripping off consumers with snake oil that can only be evaluated on the basis of pseudoscience and magic.

Speakers contribute the most distortion to the audio playback chain but not the most noise. Most people find noise more objectionable than distortion. While distortion can be rationalized as “coloration,” there are no positive attributes to noise. It’s just garbage.

To your first point, that's really a false comparison. High SINAD is also a more worthy goal than sleeping naked in the snow. The point is that manufacturers perfecting excess SINAD while giving insufficient focus on reliability and product testing before release (as evidenced by user feedback here), are not doing the customer a service. This is on topic due to the trend for overly tight packaging (heat) reflected in the LA90 and noted failures with the other amp.
To your second point, speakers do contribute audible noise as rub and buzz, and it typically well exceeds electronic noise. See Klippel, MLSSA incoherency index etc. It takes an active signal to produce it. The far more prevalent electronic noise is due to ground loops and leakage currents, not electronic self noise, and there is no evidence manufacturers are improving designs to be resilient against that, and its not tested here either.

 

[amirm]

Sorry if I should know the answer, but is there a measurement of instantaneous peak output (for transients) when playing at a "normal" output level (e.g., something like 1W)? That seems to be a recurring concern for people given the amplifier's moderate output rating, and I don't see that it is ever addressed.

I provide the burst power rating for that reason. That is the power rating on the right:

 

[DesertHawk]

Isn't the dollar pretty strong against the Euro these days? Maybe not such a bad time for Apollon or Audiophonics for those in the US.

LOL. Maybe. I haven't checked. It's been a long time since I have even thought about traveling to Europe. That said, if I was getting a purifi or Hypex, I'd start with Buckeye.

 

[amirm]

The point is that manufacturers perfecting excess SINAD while giving insufficient focus on reliability and product testing before release (as evidenced by user feedback here), are not doing the customer a service.

There is no data to back "insufficient focus on reliability and testing" in this product. You all need to stop speculating this way. Maybe it is reliable. Maybe not. You get to talk about that when there are enough samples and data out there. Not now.

 

[AudioArchitech]

I can but we need to standardize on what that means. Last time I tried to do this, I blew up an amplifier that had no such track record in actual use in that manner.

Cool, let's figure out a standard. With the PA5, I think just leaving it on for a while is all it would take How about commenting on your PA5? Is it still working good?

 

[amirm]

Also, I searched like crazy but am not able to find the link again, I recently read an article about shabby power connections in amps being this way by design, cannot reproduce the technical motivations, sorry.

??? The power terminal is of the screw kind which is quite secure. I am not seeing this as any weakness.

BTW, the power supply never got warmer than room temp in all of my testing.

 

[amirm]

Cool, let's figure out a standard. With the PA5, I think just leaving it on for a while is all it would take How about commenting on your PA5? Is it still working good?

Yes, it is working perfectly although I don't use it full time. I pull it out for specific testing of other products (like the power regens).

 

[AudioArchitech]

Maybe leave it on for around 60 days and see if yours develops the dreaded static noise...

 

[Billy Budapest]

To your second point, speakers do contribute audible noise as rub and buzz, and it typically well exceeds electronic noise.

If you are talking about mechanical noise from a speaker—like an out of spec spider causing a voice coil to rub—that’s an entirely different phenomenon. It’s not noise you hear emanating from the diaphragm reproducing music, but instead from the pistonic action of the voice coil rubbing. In other words, it’s extraneous to the signal.

As far as “buzz” from a speaker, if certain speaker topologies use transformers, then it’s possible vibrations between the laminations can cause hum, but again, that is mechanical noise. Again, extraneous to the diaphragm reproducing the signal.

 

[amirm]

Maybe leave it on for around 60 days and see if yours develops the dreaded static noise...

That kind of testing goes beyond the scope of what I have room for, or can easily accommodate.

 

[Talisman]

There is no data to back "insufficient focus on reliability and testing" in this product. You all need to stop speculating this way. Maybe it is reliable. Maybe not. You get to talk about that when there are enough samples and data out there. Not now.

This is generally true of any new release, however, given the problems, acknowledged by Topping (I refer to answers given to owners with the problem on a left channel, found in the pa5 thread) with a product that had aroused similar enthusiasm a few months ago, and considering the cost of this amplifier which is more than double the pa5, the doubts about the reliability I think are legitimate. This is already an important cost for an amplifier, it is no longer the boxes like A07 that if they break after three months are thrown away with a light heart.

 

[DesertHawk]

For anyone complaing.
1st. Purify unit with nice preamp will cost double of that so why you crying when its not fair comparison?
2nd. Just, because its no use for your case. Move on and buy Audiophonics purify, not everything is made for your majesty.
P.S why I have to pay double for Purify + Preamp for worse performance when my room is small or my listening setup is desk!?
Only complaint would be weird connectors???

I don't want to speak for everyone but I think it's a question of ideal amp use and price point. At this price, I think it's fair to compare to purifi and Hypex builds. You say worse performance but minimally worse (and possibly not audibly worse). And it's not exactly fair to say you have to spend alot on a preamp. Depending on your application, your dac might be all the preamp you need and you might need/want that dac regardless.

The counter argument would be to say there are no amps in this power range that can provide near the quality for significantly less cost. I think people would argue that you can find amps in this power range that are less expensive and whose quality differences wouldn't be audible. Frankly, I don't know and don't really care. If I needed a amp of this size, la90 would be the first I look at. If I need (want) more power then first would be purifi or Hypex.

And no one is making you pay double.

 

[amirm]

This is generally true of any new release, however, given the problems, acknowledged by Topping (I refer to answers given to owners with the problem on a left channel, found in the pa5 thread) with a product that had aroused similar enthusiasm a few months ago, and considering the cost of this amplifier which is more than double the pa5, the doubts about the reliability I think are legitimate. This is already an important cost for an amplifier, it is no longer the boxes like A07 that if they break after three months are thrown away with a light heart.

I don't know how it is legitimate to already raise concerns on a completely different amplifier and design. A generic concern of that kind is fine which should just translate into waiting to buy. Not asserting that there is reliability issue for sure as the poster did. Even for PA5 we don't know what the failure rate is relative to the total sales of the product.