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I'd bet that one of the ways they got these amazing numbers was by removing the power supply from the amplifier's casings.
It moves all the AC hum, rectifier and switching noise out of the amplifier.
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Topping LA90 Review (Integrated Amplifier)
- Thread starter amirm
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I'd bet that one of the ways they got these amazing numbers was by removing the power supply from the amplifier's casings.
It moves all the AC hum, rectifier and switching noise out of the amplifier.
I cannot know how much power is enough for you. I don't know your needs and your installation. I know it's not enough for me.
AudioSceptic
Major Contributor
Clutter!
I get your point but with this amp’s power limitations the unit itself is scaled nicely for its applications and the power supply disappears under a desk. Plus it’s doing its job very nicely.
External power supplies by their nature are less reliable. They not only take up extra space but the connector wears down with each insertion and they typically are set someplace where little cooling is available. If the length of the cord is not sufficient to reach the floor the customer is looking for an extra spot to store it or it's left dangling from the cord adding stress. Anyone designing quality electronics knows an external power supply is a design compromise. Internal power offers the ability to design for cooling, connector free operation and less chance for accidental damage. It's simply a more professional design.
If all you owned is external power dongles to power everything then you'll be use to a 4-5 year life on electronics. External power supplies are usually the 1st point of failure in most electronics from modems to hard disk enclosures. When you troubleshoot electronics with an external power supply the manufacturer will usually want to test the external power first - with good reason.
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Fair enough.
I suspect it would be enough for me, but i have a LS50 shipping to me, maybe i should check out it's needs first.
12 ohms minimum load
12 dB gain
F1308
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1 watt delivers X dB at 1 meter.
1 watt delivers X-10 dB at 3 meters.
X= Loudspeaker efficiency, usually ranging 80-100 dB.
To all of the arm chair engineers who think they could do better, here's a suggestion:
Raise capital
Design product
Market and sell said profuct.
This amp with one of their balanced DAC's fed by a lossless source feeding some 87 dB+ eff speakers will give SotA performance.
Do better than that, then your criticisms may bear weight.
Raise capital
Design product
Market and sell said profuct.
This amp with one of their balanced DAC's fed by a lossless source feeding some 87 dB+ eff speakers will give SotA performance.
Do better than that, then your criticisms may bear weight.
F1308
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I see you've edited your post, at $499 retail it might be a different conversation.
In each of my systems I have at least 4 amplifiers so I greatly prefer not to have 4 additional power bricks, I greatly prefer IEC power cables as I can get them in the exact length I need. I admit for a desktop passive stereo system this is less of an issue.
I think me and a lot of other people are looking for something that can compete with something like a Hypex NC252MP which provides a lot of clean power at under $500. This just doesn't do it and feels optimized for a very narrow use case which I think explains the lukewarm response.
Michael
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Shadrach
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Well done Topping for a very impressive technical achievement. It looks rather nice too.
Maybe this isn’t a product aimed at the Hi Fi equivalent of the muscle car fans.
I take some satisfaction in knowing when I switch on my computer based stereo system that it breaksdown like this:
PC, 11 watts max.
Active Loudspeakers, 50 Watts each max
Headphone Amplifier and Pre Amplifier, 1 Watt max
PC monitor, 50 Watts max.
Say roughly a total of 112 Watts.
Mr muscle car equivalent.
PC, 800 Watts
Power Amplifiers per pair 1000 Watts
Headphone/pre amp, (?) Say 10 Watts
PC monitor, 100 Watts
To take the analogy a bit further…
Mr muscle car uses roughly 2 Kilowatts to get from A to B (a two hour journey) flat out. He makes a lot of noise pollution and chemical pollution on the way and breaks the recommended speed (hearing damage threshold) limit doing it.
Mr more environmentally friendly with his small but efficient car stays within the recommended speed limit and uses one twentieth of the energy and maybe more importantly, doesn’t have neighbours complaining about the noise.
I know, perhaps not a pressing consideration for many especially if they can afford to pay the energy costs and live where the neighbours are a few hundred metres away.
I don’t think Topping will have a problem finding a market for this product, it just won’t be with the muscle car lovers.
Maybe this isn’t a product aimed at the Hi Fi equivalent of the muscle car fans.
I take some satisfaction in knowing when I switch on my computer based stereo system that it breaksdown like this:
PC, 11 watts max.
Active Loudspeakers, 50 Watts each max
Headphone Amplifier and Pre Amplifier, 1 Watt max
PC monitor, 50 Watts max.
Say roughly a total of 112 Watts.
Mr muscle car equivalent.
PC, 800 Watts
Power Amplifiers per pair 1000 Watts
Headphone/pre amp, (?) Say 10 Watts
PC monitor, 100 Watts
To take the analogy a bit further…
Mr muscle car uses roughly 2 Kilowatts to get from A to B (a two hour journey) flat out. He makes a lot of noise pollution and chemical pollution on the way and breaks the recommended speed (hearing damage threshold) limit doing it.
Mr more environmentally friendly with his small but efficient car stays within the recommended speed limit and uses one twentieth of the energy and maybe more importantly, doesn’t have neighbours complaining about the noise.
I know, perhaps not a pressing consideration for many especially if they can afford to pay the energy costs and live where the neighbours are a few hundred metres away.
I don’t think Topping will have a problem finding a market for this product, it just won’t be with the muscle car lovers.
Congrats to Topping for this achievement. It’s only a matter of time when something is at the top gets topping’d.
How does it sound though in listening tests with regards to bass authority, dynamics when driving 4ohm speakers with music that has a high dynamic range?
What is the damping factor at 50Hz - where the kick drum hits hardest and basically where all the watts go to an amp? Is it a BJT or MOSFET output stage amp?
If the output stage used BJT transistors, my suspicion is that the bass authority would not be as high a MOSFET output stage. Most Class D amp use MOSFETs for output driver and wil have very clear audible difference in bass if you compare them side by side with a Class AB using BJTs. OTOH, a good Class AB that uses MOSFETs will beat one that uses BJTs in bass authority in listening tests (and measurable as damping factor at bass frequencies).
Why do MOSFET amps have an advantage in bass authority? Physics of device basically gives advantage to MOSFETs relative to how much electrical resistance it poses in the fully “on state”.
One typically will hear bass authority much more readily than SINAD war numbers, which are important, but at these levels, relatively inaudible for most listeners in most situations and equipment.
An A/B listening test between this and the Topping PA5 would reveal a lot.
How does it sound though in listening tests with regards to bass authority, dynamics when driving 4ohm speakers with music that has a high dynamic range?
What is the damping factor at 50Hz - where the kick drum hits hardest and basically where all the watts go to an amp? Is it a BJT or MOSFET output stage amp?
If the output stage used BJT transistors, my suspicion is that the bass authority would not be as high a MOSFET output stage. Most Class D amp use MOSFETs for output driver and wil have very clear audible difference in bass if you compare them side by side with a Class AB using BJTs. OTOH, a good Class AB that uses MOSFETs will beat one that uses BJTs in bass authority in listening tests (and measurable as damping factor at bass frequencies).
Why do MOSFET amps have an advantage in bass authority? Physics of device basically gives advantage to MOSFETs relative to how much electrical resistance it poses in the fully “on state”.
One typically will hear bass authority much more readily than SINAD war numbers, which are important, but at these levels, relatively inaudible for most listeners in most situations and equipment.
An A/B listening test between this and the Topping PA5 would reveal a lot.
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It's a firestorm waiting to happen testing amps to 2 Ohms. If one or more amps blows then a repair(s) is required and it might get messy.
No risk for firestorm if the operator listen for distortions, and/or keep an eye on the current. Unless the protection circuit monitor load impedance and trip it at certain point, any amp can drive a 2 ohm load. Conversely, it one don't listen for distortions and/or go crazy on the volume dial, no amp is safe for a 2 ohm load, unless the protection circuitry does it job well to save the amp/or speakers from being damaged. That being said, the test duration obviously is also a key factor. It is one thing to survive 20 ms, another for 10 minutes or longer.
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Wow, If only people that can do better where allowed to criticize, Do you recommend that this site should be shut down? Have you ever been in business? If you want to put a product outr and are not able to take critics from the potential users, do something else... That's the most important thing what the market think. You don't make products for yourself. Since when only audio designers are allowed to have an opinion on audio products?
You have 2 speakers + 3 dB
Level ~ 75 dBA +12 dB, 87 dB eff speaker
-10 + 3 + 12 = +5 dB
0.063 W average ~ 75 dBA
On 60 W ~ 29 dB headroom, 104 dB peaks
I usually see ~100-102 dBZ with my 87 eff speakers at 75 dBA.
imho actual Power requirements are misunderstood.
MCA 225- from any dealer who wants your business. and if you have a good dealer relationship, even less.
Pointless? Tell that to those folks whose speakers dip well below 4 ohm and even sometimes 3ohm.
Don't you think, it's better to have more power on tap and not need it, than not having enough power when needed, even if those occasions are very few times.
Value for Anthem may seem steep at first, but with a good discount, long life span (have two +20 years), great customer support, and measuring (confirmed by Gene D at audioholics and others), they are a great value in my opinion.
Crazy good measurements with eye watering price to match. I hope Topping sells a lot of these because their target audience is probably more traditional audiophiles that have brand loyalty elsewhere or may rely on local dealers with showrooms or major publication review endorsements.
Me, I'm super happy with my DX3 Pro+ and am eyeing a PA3s to go along with it once I settle on a pair of desktop speakers (if I go passive). For my midfield listening setup I'm going Ncore 252 for my amp.
Would love to see Topping do a Minidsp competitor next
Congrats on a SOTA product!
Me, I'm super happy with my DX3 Pro+ and am eyeing a PA3s to go along with it once I settle on a pair of desktop speakers (if I go passive). For my midfield listening setup I'm going Ncore 252 for my amp.
Would love to see Topping do a Minidsp competitor next
Congrats on a SOTA product!
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