• WANTED: Happy members who like to discuss audio and other topics related to our interest. Desire to learn and share knowledge of science required. There are many reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions. Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!

Why are preamps so expensive?

OP
DesertHawk

DesertHawk

Member
Joined
Apr 14, 2022
Messages
53
Likes
95
This preamp is stupidly expensive;


View attachment 201482


JSmith
If we are just playing "name stupid expensive preamps" then my pick would be pass labs xp32

 

JSmith

Master Contributor
Joined
Feb 8, 2021
Messages
5,153
Likes
13,219
Location
Algol Perseus
If we are just playing "name stupid expensive preamps" then my pick would be pass labs xp32
Well I thought we'd established why they're expensive... so thought why not? :)

I raise you a Moon;
... just a measly $60000, spare change really.


JSmith
 

Anonamemouse

Active Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2022
Messages
126
Likes
136
Location
Close to loudspeakers
I owned this one for about 8 years


Then, quite by accident, I got a chance to play with a Benchmark LA4 and it actually sounded better. And yes, I did a blind test with 2 other people, our listening experiences matched 90%.
I know a Benchmark isn't really cheap either, but the Sovereign was 4 times as much.
 

Angsty

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Apr 11, 2020
Messages
1,863
Likes
2,215
Location
North Carolina, U.S.
I still wonder about integrated amps, just receivers without tuner/internet :) Still, not a big deal....Bryston might be interesting if you actually need a 20 year warranty?
My integrated is a Bryston B100-SST. The real gem of the B100 is the phono section, which is one of the best I have used in terms of clarity. It uses the same MM circuitry as their BP-1.5 separate which can sell for as much as the entire B100.
 

kipman725

Active Member
Joined
Jul 6, 2020
Messages
255
Likes
224
On the subject of things called X32, https://www.thomann.de/gb/behringer_x_32.htm this is cheaper than many of the preamps discussed here and has 32 inputs that you can manipulate in far more complicated ways (and include preamps). So you see how bad value for money these audiophile products are.
 

Angsty

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Apr 11, 2020
Messages
1,863
Likes
2,215
Location
North Carolina, U.S.
On the subject of things called X32, https://www.thomann.de/gb/behringer_x_32.htm this is cheaper than many of the preamps discussed here and has 32 inputs that you can manipulate in far more complicated ways (and include preamps). So you see how bad value for money these audiophile products are.
I'd find it hard to imagine using that for simple playback. I don't record or DJ, so many of those functions would be superfluous for me. I understand the pricing point, though. A "mid-level" audiophile preamp would be the NAD C 165BEE at US $1100.

 

Angsty

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Apr 11, 2020
Messages
1,863
Likes
2,215
Location
North Carolina, U.S.
Bryston might be interesting if you actually need a 20 year warranty?
The 20-year warranty comes in handy more than you may expect, if you are a "buy and hold" type of owner. I've had five Bryston units, all purchased used, and have sent four back to Bryston for inspection and "refresh" at least 10 years into the warranty. The latest one received back was in year 19!

Always got great service with no issues - units came back as good as new. I have one unit in their shop right now. I really do like how Bryston builds for serviceability. I'd rather buy a used Bryston than a new unit from many other companies.
 

pma

Major Contributor
Joined
Feb 23, 2019
Messages
4,591
Likes
10,727
Location
Prague
One will pay $28000 for APX555. Is it a good price, considering it is unable to measure distortion of SOTA linear circuits?
 

Vacceo

Major Contributor
Joined
Mar 9, 2022
Messages
2,636
Likes
2,753
Considering the thread about preams, I think this is the right spot to write a question. If I get a phono preamp with a digital out, and that digital output goes to a dac, will the final form of the sound be audibly different than using a conventional analog preamp? We are assuming no element on the chain adds audible distortion and the speakers, of course, are the same.

I assume that the signal will be changed, but the point here is, are those changes audible?
 

mhardy6647

Grand Contributor
Joined
Dec 12, 2019
Messages
11,217
Likes
24,181
I am using this for a (2 channel) active preamp, when I "need" an active preamp (as opposed to a passive TVC and source selector).
I found it at the dump.
I use it as an "integrated amplifier", too. It sounds pretty good, actually -- and it is remote controllable (using a generic remote -- one drawback to dump-find electronics: the vapor pressure of remote controls is quite high). ;)

1650649467303.jpeg
 

Cbdb2

Major Contributor
Joined
Sep 8, 2019
Messages
1,530
Likes
1,485
Location
Vancouver
How do you square that away with Amir saying, "Honestly, there is no way I could ever build you a preamp with this functionality and performance and sell it at this price."

There must be something in there that cost alot.
Don't know what he was talking about. The components only cost a lot if there audiophool components. What costs a lot for most of these devices is the marketing.
 
Last edited:

Angsty

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Apr 11, 2020
Messages
1,863
Likes
2,215
Location
North Carolina, U.S.
Don't know what he was talking about. The components only cost a lot if there audiophool components.
Amir would also include the value of his labor in a product he'd sell.
 

pjug

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Feb 2, 2019
Messages
1,775
Likes
1,561
I'm with the OP. Its purpose is a switch and a volume control. Very few sources don't have the level to drive an amp. I had a preamp go bad a long time ago and couldn't afford to replace it. I just connected source to amp (no turntable) and used the amps volume controls, worked fine for months. In a preamp the enclosure and connecters costs more than ALL the electronics inside. Your aufiophools dont know this. They think if a product costs 10x the price, the electronics in the box will also be 10x the price, more like twice. And the cost of R&D for something that has been solved 50 years ago is minimum.

The answer to the question? There that expensive because people will pay that much.
If you just want a minimal selector and attenuator then cheap devices do exist:
 

Cbdb2

Major Contributor
Joined
Sep 8, 2019
Messages
1,530
Likes
1,485
Location
Vancouver
On the other hand one can get a small analog audio mixer with individual channel controls including EQ, mic and line level inputs, starting at less than $100. More money adds more channels, faders instead of rotating pots, multi band graphic EQ for the master output and so on. There is a lot of functionality for a lot less money. See the Behringer Xenyx / Mackie VLZ / Yamaha MG series ... I've no clue how these companies are able to sell at those prices.
Exactly, so why does a consumer pre that does less cost more? And don't tell me economies of scale, theres way more preamps being sold then mixers.
Same answer as before, because these things aren't priced a percentage of what they cost to make but what your willing to pay.
 

Angsty

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Apr 11, 2020
Messages
1,863
Likes
2,215
Location
North Carolina, U.S.
Considering the thread about preams, I think this is the right spot to write a question. If I get a phono preamp with a digital out, and that digital output goes to a dac, will the final form of the sound be audibly different than using a conventional analog preamp? We are assuming no element on the chain adds audible distortion and the speakers, of course, are the same.

I assume that the signal will be changed, but the point here is, are those changes audible?
Maybe. I think it's all in the ADC and how well it works. A 24-bit ADC should do a good enough job to allow for inaudible variances downstream. I have a 16-bit Parasound Zphono USB that does not sound as good as my more conventional MM phonos. I don't have the testing equipment to measure the differences.
 

Angsty

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Apr 11, 2020
Messages
1,863
Likes
2,215
Location
North Carolina, U.S.
Exactly, so why does a consumer pre that does less cost more? And don't tell me economies of scale, theres way more preamps being sold then mixers.
Same answer as before, because these things aren't priced a percentage of what they cost to make but what your willing to pay.
To what extent does quality of components impact production cost?
 

Angsty

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Apr 11, 2020
Messages
1,863
Likes
2,215
Location
North Carolina, U.S.
Whats the labour cost done by robot's in China.
Let's go back to the actual quote... "Honestly, there is no way I could ever build you a preamp with this functionality and performance and sell it at this price." [bold emphasis is mine].

Amir's simply saying he could not build it as a bespoke unit, not that Schiit couldn't do it.
 

Cbdb2

Major Contributor
Joined
Sep 8, 2019
Messages
1,530
Likes
1,485
Location
Vancouver
Let's go back to the actual quote... "Honestly, there is no way I could ever build you a preamp with this functionality and performance and sell it at this price." [bold emphasis is mine].

Amir's simply saying he could not build it as a bespoke unit, not that Schiit couldn't do it.
No kidding, whats your point?
 
Top Bottom