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Audio-GD NFB-11.38 Performance Edition Measurements (DAC, Preamp & Headamp)

beagleman

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Determining audibility thresholds is important, no argument there. But the subjective impressions of one reviewer in an uncontrolled listening situation doesn’t provide any useful data to help reach that goal.
Nor does it hurt.
Reading just random measurements tells me some thingsFOR SURE, but not if they are audible............So where does that leave us??

And yes it does help to some readers, such as myself. It is not definitive for sure, and nothing in life truly is. But it beats bashing something as sounding "Horrible" based on just READING measurements, at least in my mind.

I mean some of you guys are looking at ANY subjective impressions as a total negative, not sure it has to be.

Amir regularly mentions mediocre measurements, and will often add, "But did not notice it during listening as being an issue".
 
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Lupin

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Yeah it doesn't measure that great; one can buy better these days at bargain prices. But I really doubt many of us here - IF ANY!- could actually hear the difference in a blind A/B of this DAC vs a good Topping unit.
For what it is worth..
I one can read in my signature I have both Audio-GD NFB-11.38 and Topping D30pro.
Last time i checked the D30pro was still in the top 10 best DACs measured on ASR and the NFB-11.38 measures a lot worse... yet I'm certain that I would not be able to reliably tell them apart in a controlled volume matched double blind listening test.

As i said multiple times in other threads I'm very aware that Audio-GD measures (very) badly but that doesn't automatically mean that it sounds like a tin can or something. Lot of people look at the numbers and graphs but don't fully understand what they see but still are quick to draw wild conclusions that are taken over on other places of the internet as being true.
 

TheBatsEar

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I'm very aware that Audio-GD measures (very) badly but that doesn't automatically mean that it sounds like a tin can or something.
What do you think it means when a device, that doesn't really come cheap, measures badly?
For me it means let some other sucker buy it. :cool:

Lot of people look at the numbers and graphs but don't fully understand what they see but still are quick to draw wild conclusions that are taken over on other places of the internet as being true.
I don't understand, don't you think there are cheaper devices that do the same, yet measure better? Because that's pretty much the conclusion here, is it not?
 

beagleman

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What do you think it means when a device, that doesn't really come cheap, measures badly?
For me it means let some other sucker buy it. :cool:


I don't understand, don't you think there are cheaper devices that do the same, yet measure better? Because that's pretty much the conclusion here, is it not?


So you base all your purchases on measurements only, and never buy anything unless it was tested and measured great?
 

TheBatsEar

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So you base all your purchases on measurements only, and never buy anything unless it was tested and measured great?
Yes.
I'm not rich enough to buy bad measuring stuff.
 

Zensō

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Nor does it hurt.
It certainly does hurt. Self-serving subjective reviews driven by undisclosed commissions can be extremely misleading. This site and its ad-free, objective approach is a bright light in the dark swamp of snake oil junk being peddled in the audiophile market.
 
OP
VintageFlanker

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Any top performing unbalanced DACs I have produces ground noise when connected this way. See experiment.
It is clearly not "any" DAC for me. Ok, I hear you, but can you replicate this issue with the same configuration as mine? Because I can't. To be clear: only this Audio-GD has that much of trouble with Coax and USB. Sure, I don't deny it is a loop issue, but then, it is a loop issue exclusively for the aforementioned...
You're just holding it wrong
Or Audio-GD is, the way I see it.
it's not their fault.
Kind of, I regret.;) Why others DACs I tested perform most likely similar with whatever USB, Coax or Toslink, then?

Now that I'm back at home, I just launched a few noise tests for the three inputs out of two others DACs, all done with RCA outputs:

Matrix USB VS COAX VS TOSLINK - RCA.png

Here is my Matrix. I concede that there is little grass added at upper frequencies for both Coax and USB. Measured Noise (dB A) is -121.0 (Toslink), -120.8 (Coax) and -120.0 (USB).

Unknown USB VS COAX VS TOSLINK - RCA.png

Here is the piece of gear next to be reviewed (I don't tell what it is yet.;)). You got -116.8dB (Toslink), -116.8dB (Coax) and -116.4dB (USB).

And now, we have Audio-GD:
NFB11 USB VS COAX VS TOSLINK.png


manshrug.gif

Between coax and USB there's still a possibility of a ground loop even on laptop batteries, but an optical input is guaranteed to break it. If toslink doesn't show the same level of noise, you may have a ground loop (a difference of potential between grounds).
Thanks for the input ! The data above may sure be interesting.;)
 
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audiofun

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You are conducting a faulty experiment. The conclusion you draw from it is nonsense. That's all.
 

TheBatsEar

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You are conducting a faulty experiment. The conclusion you draw from it is nonsense. That's all.
That might be the most convincing argument i have ever had the pleasure of reading.
Jim_U18chan.gif
 

beagleman

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It certainly does hurt. Self-serving subjective reviews driven by undisclosed commissions can be extremely misleading. This site and its ad-free, objective approach is a bright light in the dark swamp of snake oil junk being peddled in the audiophile market.
You seem to be purposely misunderstanding what I said...........

I love the objective stuff, but I would not MIND some subjective comments to infer if the things measured actually impact the final sound, OR, are simply measurable and mediocre and would not impact the sound.

I came here FOR the objective measurements, but even mention subjective and some get in some silly tizzy.

I never said anything about Self serving subjective reviews, but that some comments on AUDIBILITY of certain mediocre measurements would maybe clarify findings.

Hearing noise or distortion during test tones or full spectrum signals and measuring them is ONE Thing, but as to the audibility during musical signals I think would be helpful, in that we tend to listen to our components WITH music.

Please quite mis-construing what I said.
 

beagleman

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This is a review and detailed measurements of the Superlux HD387 IEM. It was kindly purchased by a member in Europe and shipped to me. It costs US $15.90.
View attachment 201321

Conclusions
Frequency response is clearly flawed here but visually it seems far worse than it sounds.
Out of the box the tonality is good enough to use. Boosting the upper bass is a standard technique for lack of deeper bass so it works in that regard. While difficult to develop manual, as usual EQ improves the performance good bit putting high fidelity sound within your reach for the price of a couple of fast food meals! Amazing what you can do when all you have to do is move a tiny, tiny amount of air inside your ear drum!

I am going to marginally recommend the Superlux HD387 IEM with EQ.

-----------
As always, questions, comments, recommendations, etc. are welcome.

Any donations are much appreciated using:
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/how-to-support-audio-science-review.8150/


To me, Amir's comments are helpful here.
I like how he tests and measures the product, then applies some actual listening usage with music to determine HOW it sounds, or if the less than stellar measurements actually impact the final sound in a mild, moderate or truly bad way.
 

TheBatsEar

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Here is the piece of gear next to be reviewed (I don't tell what it is yet.;)). You got -116.8dB (Toslink), -116.8dB (Coax) and -116.4dB (USB).
mom_is_that_you.gif

I need to know, for medicinal reasons. Is it the 80€ streamer Audiophonics sells?

Hearing noise or distortion during test tones or full spectrum signals and measuring them is ONE Thing, but as to the audibility during musical signals I think would be helpful, in that we tend to listen to our components WITH music.
Fair enough, but we know that perceived sound basically depends more on mood, blood sugar and caffeine intake, it's very random.
Toole points to papers that detail what and what we probably can't hear. It all has giant error bars.

Taking the measurement without listening impressions offers, in my mind, a "truer" hint to what i can expect. Particularly if the measurements use the same methodology over many devices. In fact, i think the subjective comments are a problem when they are repeated by people that didn't hear the device and just trust Amir because he has authority in the hobby.

Good measurements can be copied and cited without destroying their meaning or value.
 

TheBatsEar

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7376376.gif

I'm watching your posts then.
 

Tks

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Nice review VintageFlanker

Im convinced this company can't make a good device even if they literally tried and budget wasn't a factor. Legit think they lack the knowledge to do so at this point. Boards packed with SMDs and components, yet still falling quite short of competition.

I also Said it the last time their device was reviewed, even if we take performance out of the equation in totality, I cannot understand how this company still survives. Their devices don't look good at all, they don't look like someone had to sweat to make the housing, the logo font looks like something that comes default with Microsoft Word or Photoshop.. There's just nothing about their devices that pull me in in the slightest even if performance was as good as other top performers.

There's no design work here at all. Look at where it says "Variable" how idiotically/inconsiderate the font is spaced from the button, it's like the button housing is almost laying on top of the printed font.

SO bad. Not a single redeeming quality whenever I see their devices.
 

amirm

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I also Said it the last time their device was reviewed, even if we take performance out of the equation in totality, I cannot understand how this company still survives. Their devices don't look good at all, they don't look like someone had to sweat to make the housing, the logo font looks like something that comes default with Microsoft Word or Photoshop.. There's just nothing about their devices that pull me in in the slightest even if performance was as good as other top performers.
Unless something has changed, the worst part is that you have to paypal the money to an email address and then pray that they will ship you the box! There is no ecommerce option to buy a product from them properly.
 

escalibur

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Unless something has changed, the worst part is that you have to paypal the money to an email address and then pray that they will ship you the box! There is no ecommerce option to buy a product from them properly.
And don't forget to pray that you dont have to ship the product back to China.
 

Ra1zel

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Im convinced this company can't make a good device even if they literally tried and budget wasn't a factor. Legit think they lack the knowledge to do so at this point.
They most likely can, but then how do you sell it to audiophiles without pretty pictures of hundreds of passive useless components?
 
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