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PS Audio PowerPlant 12 Review (AC Regenerator)

Rate this product:

  • 1. Poor (headless panther)

    Votes: 249 90.2%
  • 2. Not terrible (postman panther)

    Votes: 18 6.5%
  • 3. Fine (happy panther)

    Votes: 1 0.4%
  • 4. Great (golfing panther)

    Votes: 8 2.9%

  • Total voters
    276

srkbear

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Absolutely. If they are data that address the sound quality.
Amir did listening tests in his review, although I think you’re still missing the point. The folks who have claimed here that it sounds better do not represent a double-blind, prospective study with adequate controls and a statistically-powered sample size. If PS Audio performed such a study, let’s see it.
 
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Geert

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Absolutely. If they are data that address the sound quality.

Like the test Amir did to determine the effect on 2 DAC's (result: none) and a power amplifier (result: max. power loss)?
 
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srkbear

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Like the test Amir did to determine the effect on a 2 DAC's (result: none) and a power amplifier (result: max. power loss)?
Not to mention the fact that he jammed a large transformer next to the thing to see if it guarded against electrical noise!
 

JSmith

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Fan noise is a known problem with the P12 as well... great for background noise levels in ones listening space.


JSmith
 

voodooless

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Fan noise is a known problem with the P12 as well... great for background noise levels in ones listening space.
Isn’t more background noise often equated with more spacious sound? ;)
 

srkbear

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Granted, my power amplifier isn't very hungry and my whole system uses 300-400W total, but I have yet to hear the fans turn on.
And I want to underscore my respect for your purchase. I enjoy these debates for many reasons, but ultimately we’re all here for a shared love of music—whatever monetary expense you chose to invest in your gear or what your justifications were, if you can afford it and it gives you joy, the data debated here shouldn’t change that. I appreciate you not being reactionary to this discussion.
 
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KellenVancouver

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What objective data do you want? Line up 20 people, march them blindfolded by a speaker to listen for noise while the power conditioner is either in or out of the system? People in this thread have reported that it made a difference in their systems. They have actual experience with the PowerPlant in their system. Their comments are dismissed as anecdotes.
"Objective" means measurable with repeatable results. Your example using 20 humans does not achieve objectivity, it just achieves 20 shades of subjectivity. If you're thinking that the collective mean of 20 humans represents objectivity, that is also incorrect. It just achieves a subjective mean. True objectivity, repeatable and measurable objectivity as represented by Amir's reviews, is the foundation of ASR. There is a reason this forum has the word "science" in its name.

Subjectivity has its place in the world. Art for example. And if people want to laud audio equipment based on its aesthetic characteristics, more power to them. But an evaluation of audio equipment performance requires objective, not subjective reviews. Amir's objective review of the PS Audio "Power Plant" 12 speaks for itself. Failure.
 
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srkbear

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"Objective" means measurable with repeatable results. Your example using 20 humans does not achieve objectivity, it just achieves 20 shades of subjectivity. If you're thinking that the collective mean of 20 humans represents objectivity, that is also incorrect. It just achieves a subjective mean. True objectivity, repeatable and measurable objectivity as represented by Amir's reviews, is the foundation of ASR. There is as reason this forum has the word "science" in its name.

Subjectivity has its place in the world. Art for example. And if people want to laud audio equipment based on its aesthetic characteristics, more power to them. But an evaluation of audio equipment performance requires objective, not subjective reviews. Amir's objective review of the PS Audio "Power Plant" 12 speaks for itself. Failure.
I echo this. There could be a compelling analysis of the subjective experience with this device, if someone designed a prospective, double-blind study with rigorous controls, and had an adequately powered sample size.

The sample size required for statistical significance can be calculated, but typically for experiential endpoints like this the number would have to be far more than 20–and of course the study cannot be comprised of subjects who have already invested $6,000 in the device.

Again, I cannot say whether PS Audio performed such a study when making their bold claims about this product, but given the lack of a requirement for their doing so and the expense involved, I highly doubt it.
 

srkbear

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It's definitely true! I take it ... at least I think I took it... and my memory has improved!
In my medical school statistics class they presented an example of an actual published study in the literature—some investigator performed a retrospective study of the affect of aspirin on dementia. Their design was based on asking subjects about their recall of taking aspirin. Think about it…
 

KellenVancouver

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In my medial school statistics class they presented an example of an actual published study in the literature—some investigator performed a retrospective study of the affect of aspirin on dementia. Their design was based on asking subjects about their recall of taking aspirin. Think about it…
I think you meant "medical" school, but on the other hand I thought "medial" school was kinda cute...
 

captainbeefheart

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PSAudio is not being even remotely transparent. They in fact tell you that you NEED this product. In their words:

"This is one of the most important pieces of audio equipment you can own, building a firm and reliable foundation for your system that will serve you for years to come."

"With your system powered directly from the output of the P12, you can expect far better micro and macro dynamics, as well as cleaner, lower background noise."

The latter is very easy to test and measure yet nobody can measure any difference in noise floor from any device plugged into the P12.

"The P12 takes your incoming AC power, converts it to DC, and then regenerates it, producing new sine-wave-perfect, regulated high current AC power."

We can most likely even deduce that they are even lying how the device even works, Amir clearly showed the output from P12 as having the same exact profile as the raw line power. If it was actually pure you would just see 60Hz on the spectrum analyzer and everything else would be flat yet the output of the P12 looked exactly the same as the raw power.

I can't see how anyone with any sort of intelligence (and conscience) goes to their defense and doesn't see this as an example of false advertising and snake oil.


Let's be clear here, we have one guy "LarryRS" that is defending this product. I'm willing to bet he purchased one of these or similar things from PSAudio or he has some connection to PSAudio that he is not admitting to. The evidence is just too clear for anyone unbiased to not see this for what it is, a sham.
 

srkbear

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PSAudio is not being even remotely transparent. They in fact tell you that you NEED this product. In their words:

"This is one of the most important pieces of audio equipment you can own, building a firm and reliable foundation for your system that will serve you for years to come."

"With your system powered directly from the output of the P12, you can expect far better micro and macro dynamics, as well as cleaner, lower background noise."

The latter is very easy to test and measure yet nobody can measure any difference in noise floor from any device plugged into the P12.

"The P12 takes your incoming AC power, converts it to DC, and then regenerates it, producing new sine-wave-perfect, regulated high current AC power."

We can most likely even deduce that they are even lying how the device even works, Amir clearly showed the output from P12 as having the same exact profile as the raw line power. If it was actually pure you would just see 60Hz on the spectrum analyzer and everything else would be flat yet the output of the P12 looked exactly the same as the raw power.

I can't see how anyone with any sort of intelligence (and conscience) goes to their defense and doesn't see this as an example of false advertising and snake oil.


Let's be clear here, we have one guy "LarryRS" that is defending this product. I'm willing to bet he purchased one of these or similar things from PSAudio or he has some connection to PSAudio that he is not admitting to. The evidence is just too clear for anyone unbiased to not see this for what it is, a sham.
I think we should mention @pinpoint_oxford, who is apparently the fella who owns one of these and was generous enough to arrange shipping of this behemoth to Amir for testing and review. He’s been astonishingly graceful throughout the thrashing here.

As far as LarryRS goes, to date he hasn’t divulged whether he owns one of these, and I still haven’t figured out what he’s up to from his comments—other than the fact that he seems unusually passionate about defending PS Audio. Strangely he seems committed enough to defend even their most vile tactics—which leads me to agree with your suspicion that he probably has indeed put a lot of cash down on this brand.
 
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captainbeefheart

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I think we should mention pinpoint_oxford, who is apparently the generous fella who owns one of these and was generous enough to arrange shipping of this behemoth to Amir for testing and review. He’s been astonishingly graceful throughout the thrashing here.

Yes what that tells me is even though he purchased the P12 he is a level headed person not afraid of objective data. I would wager that a large percentage of people that own these wouldn't even want to know the truth, ignorance is bliss.

I am curious if he mentioned why he wanted it tested and what his experience with it was. Did he notice any sound changes? Did it remove any ground loops? What was the initial purchase motivation? I assume many purchase it because Paul and his henchmen tell you that you need this device to make all your other devices work as best as they can.

Thank you "pinpoint_oxford" for lending Amir your gear and allowing the light to be shown in this sometimes dark industry. Let the light show on all other snake oil dealers laughing all the way to the bank.
 

srkbear

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Yes what that tells me is even though he purchased the P12 he is a level headed person not afraid of objective data. I would wager that a large percentage of people that own these wouldn't even want to know the truth, ignorance is bliss.

I am curious if he mentioned why he wanted it tested and what his experience with it was. Did he notice any sound changes? Did it remove any ground loops? What was the initial purchase motivation? I assume many purchase it because Paul and his henchmen tell you that you need this device to make all your other devices work as best as they can.

Thank you "pinpoint_oxford" for lending Amir your gear and allowing the light to be shown in this sometimes dark industry. Let the light show on all other snake oil dealers laughing all the way to the bank.
From what I’ve read from him in his few humble comments here, he did suggest that it did eliminate some noise issues for him. Refreshingly he made no claims of it “elevating his listening experience to new level” (PS Audio™️).
 
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