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DBR62 vs DIY Speakers

egothrasher

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I've unfortunately gone down the rabbit hole in terms of looking into DIY speakers. I was originally going to pick up a pair of used DBR 62's for around $425 without shipping. Then I go onto youtube and get bombarded with all these videos of DIY speakers, build $5000 speakers for around $400-500.

The two kits that stood out to me are the CSS Criton 1 TD, roughly $700 for a pair. A little over the $500 price range I had set for myself.

Then, I just came across the Hivi/Swans 3.1 kit. $299 for a pair. I've also bookmarked the mod everyone suggests, which is like $10 if that for the parts for the crossover. I don't mind building, actually enjoy woodworking. And I'm sure I can veneer them, can choose my finish too which is nice.

Would the Hivi compare to the ELAC's? Zeos reviews them highly, as does this forum (with the proper mod/corrections of course). And are the Criton's that much better for double the price.

Thanks!
 

Ericglo

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I am guessing that you read Amir's review of both the Elac and Hivi.
 

Marc v E

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Reading your post it seems to me your started doubting yourself and your choises. From my experience this is a road to nowhere but more doubt and fear. I would heartily recommend you buy the dbr62. A good friend of mine has them too and loves them. But what really counts are the measurements by Amir and they are really good.

(My advice could be different if your post was more about love for tinkering and woodworking. And even then you should consider that if you would want to sell them on, you would be very lucky to get a good price or even be able to sell them. People just care about brands and shiny stuff. Not 2nd hand diy speakers.)
 
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Prana Ferox

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For full DIY kits with flat packs, I'd look at the DIYSG Helix in this class / price range as well.

That being said, don't underestimate the time / money sink the cosmetic finishing can take. That's a large part of the difference between buying a $5k speaker and doing it yourself 'for $500'; it generally ignores that part of it. DIY if you want to go for a certain look, that's not immediately available in your price range. If that part of the construction brings you enjoyment that balances that out - or if you absolutely don't value finish at all and are just going to leave it bare MDF / rattlecanned - that can push that value proposition around. It also matters if you already have a nice soldering space and equipment, and again whether you have space and equipment for the finishing, otherwise those also add to the expense.

If it's going to be a chore more than a pleasure to build DIY, and you don't mind the ELACs, they should be fine. I would not suspect any of these DIY kits to be noticeably better.

E: If you want to try DIY I recommend starting with a pair of Overnight Sensations or C-Notes. If you like the product and the experience, consider moving up. If six months later the kits still aren't finished and you don't want to touch them, you'll have avoided a more expensive mistake. If you end up buying ELACs in that timeframe and change your mind, you can always sell them.
 

DanielT

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Maybe a little OT.. :)

It is probably more a question of DBR62 vs DIY theoretical and practical
knowledge and experience. Plus DIY's access to and ability to use calculation software for speakers, measuring equipment and sensible work tools.It was DIY from scratch, a completely self-developed construction. One, by others, sensibly developed DIY kit is another thing.For finsh way also in skills rearding woodworking. :)

It's this person, legend, we're talking about who made DBR62, so good luck. BUT with that said, there is a huge advantage to DIY speakers. You can design them adapted to the listening room, tailor them. For example, line speakers that go from floor to ceiling.:)
Or X number of subwoofers placed in the listening room, as it suits your taste, aesthetics and room acoustics. Maybe subwoofers in furniture to blend in. Thin subeoofer that you hide under the sofa and so on. The flexible ability to customize is given to a DIY.:)



Exit:
In addition, one can build because it is fun. To learn. That aspect, in itself, can weigh very heavily.That's how I look at it anyway. Then, at least in my case, it will be as it is. I do it most (maybe only), because it's fun and educational. I have no illusions that there will be any "High End" creations (in my case) but it does not matter.:D
 
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alex-z

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$425 for the DBR62 is a decent deal.

The Hivi 3.1 kit is going to be slightly better value, but in outright acoustic performance about the same.

The CSS Criton 1TD is too expensive in my opinion. $700 is the same price as a pair of Revel M16, or modified KEF Q350.
 

Scrivs

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I can’t comment as to the kits referenced above, but have built a few well researched/thought out designs of my own. Many moons, piles of MDF dust, and iteration finally resulted in something that by objective measurements is “good.” You know what? To mine own ears, this Active MTM Bathroom-Shelf-Bachelor-Speaker-Thing sounds quite nice really. Sonically, it lays “the veil” quite nicely over those ghastly 200-400Hz (ish) oscillations frequently found in said Speaker-Thing’s home . Oh, and I haven’t gotten around to the cosmetics yet, so unless unfinished MDF is your thing, it looks like the end result of aforementioned “oscillations.” . It’ll probably stay that way…

That little speaker, a lark really represents in excess of 100 hours of research, reading, learning, ASRing, more ASRing, then re-ASRing. The actual assembly once I had verified and checked and re-checked everything took maybe a weekend. I agree with all of the above. I have the knowledge, skills, tools, resources, materials to theoretically re-create some very good speakers. In fact, I spent waaaaay too many hours unsuccessfully trying to figure out who makes the drivers in both the DBR62 and Debut 6.2. I already own two pairs of the former and one of the latter. I was gonna try and recreate my DBR62s. Even if I definitively found the OEM woofers, which I can’t— SB? SEAS? Peerless, Vifa? Wavecor? Anybody?

Buy the DBR62 for $425. Great price, I’m sure if they aren’t to your taste, you’ll have no problem offloading them. If you have an appreciation for good engineering choices, what is possible for asking price (see also JBL Studio 530, have and love them too), they are worth it just to see. I was very pleasantly surprised at the quality of the woofers in the Elat’s. Especially the woofers in the DBR62s. Wish I knew who made ‘em, curiosity won’t subside.

Whatever choice you make I hope its fun. This forum, and a little research will make it more funnnnnnner!
 

DanielT

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E: If you want to try DIY I recommend starting with a pair of Overnight Sensations or C-Notes.
Good price! :D

C-Note MT Bookshelf Speaker Kit Pair with Knock-Down Cabinets: Your Price: $ 149.98
+ FREE SHIPPING



Tested here:

Conclusions
The Parts Express DIY C-Note kit doesn't have an ideal response but seemingly what it has is very good. It can play loud in a pleasant manner with good detail and solid bass. I have tested other budge speakers but they don't play this loud and this well.

If can handle a bit of gluing and finishing, you can have a very good sounding budget speaker here.


I am going to put the C-Note on my recommended list of budget speakers.


The tweeter, in the C-note, looks good. :) The one itself is tested and measured here:


Good price - performance:

Dayton Audio ND25FW-4 1 "Soft Dome Neodymium Tweeter with Waveguide 4 Ohm: Your Price: $ 21.49

 
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uwotm8

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I was originally going to pick up a pair of used DBR 62's for around $425 without shipping. Then I go onto youtube and get bombarded with all these videos of DIY speakers
Good brand speakers for music surely. DIY for intensive... DIYing.
You will not save money going DIY way, you will rather spend a lot more if you have no workshop/equipment etc and such experience.
But yes, there can be some goals - like special look and finish - acheived (but most of DIY speakers look poor for some reasons).
 

DanielT

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Good brand speakers for music surely. DIY for intensive... DIYing.
You will not save money going DIY way, you will rather spend a lot more if you have no workshop/equipment etc and such experience.
But yes, there can be some goals - like special look and finish - acheived (but most of DIY speakers look poor for some reasons).
Times have changed. Then:

Kal Rubinson, #7:

Yes, in fact, in the very early days, you had no choice regardless of your budget. If you could not DIY, you commissioned someone to do it for you. Empty speaker and equipment cabinets were available along with custom cabinetry. My first real speaker had a 12" GE woofer and a 3" RCA tweeter with a network I designed and assembled myself. The cabinet was a floor-standing bass reflex which I bought, unfinished, from River Edge. I was fortunate to have a cousin who finished it for me in satin mahogany.


What does not change is the skill of woodworking. It will be the finsh it will be, depending on the skill, on DIY speakers.:)
 

ROOSKIE

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Not on board with all C-note recommendations.
They are not that great. I would not build them if you are looking for speaker that competes with the best commercial offerings in the $500-$800 range.
The C-notes are not comparative with any of them. Compare them with the better offerings in the $200-300 retail class and then maybe but I found in my listening they are still beat out there. Especially if you factor sale prices.
You are going to be spending time building them, which I think is very fun. I love DIY, that said the best commercial systems have nailed the $200-$1k range.
To beat a pair of Revel M16's ($700pr on sale right now)will require some really well designed DIY gear.
That said I'd consider building the HiVi kit. Based on my experience with DIY it looks very nice and does likely fit in with more expensive commercial speakers. I have never heard them though.
The CSS kit uses a well respected Wavecore OEM'd woofer that has pretty deep bass ability. If using subs this won't matter but on their own they might have pretty great bass. They match this with a 22mm tweeter not in a waveguide. This seems like a tall order. I wouldn't buy these unless Klipple tested or at least home Spinorama'd. I'd have a hard believing that beyond deep bass, many others would not exceed the CSS speaker.
Between the 2, I am just guessing the HiVi is the better value and perhaps the better speaker. CSS is not an OEM and HiVi is, so the price difference is basically that. If CSS sold the 3.1 it would be $700.
(In any case again skip the C-notes.)
If I was trying something out, I would build the SB acoustics BROMO over the CSS. $470pr

Or maybe connect with this members work found here and build something with a contemporary waveguide.


If I was someone looking at the C-notes and needed small speakers or had subs and had a small budget(and cabinet making skills) I would build these for $250pr.


Rabbit hole
Troels's DIY Speaker site is fun

Heissman Audio DIY

Meniscus Audio DIY kits

I built these with my GF. Wanted something in kit form for her. They sound great, though they use a smallish woofer and could use sub bass reinforcement. Beautiful Walnut front baffle and some complexity getting the whole thing together. More expensive but included just for fun and as another example of a quality DIY kit.

I believe a kit for this was/is in the works. Maybe a long time now though as this site is based in Russia. State of the art though and prolly expensive, just included here for fun.

Anyway.
I'd buy both the dbr62 and Revel M16 with good return policies or at prices easy to recoup on if reselling. Spend a few weeks with both at the same time. Keep the one you prefer. This is an important step. As an example I prefer the M16 over the dbr62 by a wide margin, but you could be the opposite. They do not sound the same.
Then using that keeper as a reference, start getting into DIY with something to validate what you are hearing.
 
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rgpit

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One other item to consider. The Elac and Revel loudspeakers will have reasonable resale value when you are ready to upgrade or change. I have found that even the best DIYs have very little to no resale value.
 

tw 2022

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One other item to consider. The Elac and Revel loudspeakers will have reasonable resale value when you are ready to upgrade or change. I have found that even the best DIYs have very little to no resale value.
this is something i consider important in this hobby...
 

Prana Ferox

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Not on board with all C-note recommendations.
To be clear I wasn't recommending the C-note or OS as actual competitors to the DBR62, or the Hivi / CSS. My recommendation was that generally you can buy both of those kits on the cheap and nearly complete - you need some sort of binding posts / terminals and optional crossover PCBs, and some pillow fluff IIRC, and that's about it. That lets you see if you actually like (parts of) DIY'ing speakers. In the absolute worst case you're out $150 and your time.

It's similar to, when someone says they have never soldered but want to build a tube amp or some moderately deep-end project, tell them to order a cheap DIY FM radio kit from Amazon and start with it instead. That's a more extreme example because these days an FM radio is near to useless, but if they decide they suck at it and hate it they're only out $20.
 

Jim Shaw

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Honest question: Do you want to cut and sand and glue or do you want to listen to music?
Hint: The answer for every individual is different and not obvious.

My points of reference:
1. Amir's objective review was superlative. And Amir generally doesn't recommend Andrew Jones speakers.
2. I have been playing music on DBR62s for two years now. I am a pretty critical listener of serious music. I can find little fault with them. No, they can't provide concert-level audio of high quality in a big room: they're only 6" speakers. I have no intent to replace them. Most important: They don't annoy me.

I use them with 2 subwoofers, which provide bass down to an F3 of 25 Hz. The combination is a remarkably good sound system for critical listening. All it lacks is snob appeal (which will cost you many tens of thousands of $$$).

-Just one man's view.
 

tw 2022

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Honest question: Do you want to cut and sand and glue or do you want to listen to music?
Hint: The answer for every individual is different and not obvious.

My points of reference:
1. Amir's objective review was superlative. And Amir generally doesn't recommend Andrew Jones speakers.
2. I have been playing music on DBR62s for two years now. I am a pretty critical listener of serious music. I can find little fault with them. No, they can't provide concert-level audio of high quality in a big room: they're only 6" speakers. I have no intent to replace them. Most important: They don't annoy me.

I use them with 2 subwoofers, which provide bass down to an F3 of 25 Hz. The combination is a remarkably good sound system for critical listening. All it lacks is snob appeal (which will cost you many tens of thousands of $$$).

-Just one man's view.
F' ing Amen....sometimes the quest is " happy" and it doesn't go any deeper...
 

DanielT

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Not on board with all C-note recommendations.
They are not that great
. I would not build them if you are looking for speaker that competes with the best commercial offerings in the $500-$800 range.
The C-notes are not comparative with any of them. Compare them with the better offerings in the $200-300 retail class and then maybe but I found in my listening they are still beat out there. Especially if you factor sale prices.
You are going to be spending time building them, which I think is very fun. I love DIY, that said the best commercial systems have nailed the $200-$1k range.
To beat a pair of Revel M16's ($700pr on sale right now)will require some really well designed DIY gear.
That said I'd consider building the HiVi kit. Based on my experience with DIY it looks very nice and does likely fit in with more expensive commercial speakers. I have never heard them though.
The CSS kit uses a well respected Wavecore OEM'd woofer that has pretty deep bass ability. If using subs this won't matter but on their own they might have pretty great bass. They match this with a 22mm tweeter not in a waveguide. This seems like a tall order. I wouldn't buy these unless Klipple tested or at least home Spinorama'd. I'd have a hard believing that beyond deep bass, many others would not exceed the CSS speaker.
Between the 2, I am just guessing the HiVi is the better value and perhaps the better speaker. CSS is not an OEM and HiVi is, so the price difference is basically that. If CSS sold the 3.1 it would be $700.
(In any case again skip the C-notes.)
If I was trying something out, I would build the SB acoustics BROMO over the CSS. $470pr

Or maybe connect with this members work found here and build something with a contemporary waveguide.


If I was someone looking at the C-notes and needed small speakers or had subs and had a small budget(and cabinet making skills) I would build these for $250pr.


Rabbit hole
Troels's DIY Speaker site is fun

Heissman Audio DIY

Meniscus Audio DIY kits

I built these with my GF. Wanted something in kit form for her. They sound great, though they use a smallish woofer and could use sub bass reinforcement. Beautiful Walnut front baffle and some complexity getting the whole thing together. More expensive but included just for fun and as another example of a quality DIY kit.

I believe a kit for this was/is in the works. Maybe a long time now though as this site is based in Russia. State of the art though and prolly expensive, just included here for fun.

Anyway.
I'd buy both the dbr62 and Revel M16 with good return policies or at prices easy to recoup on if reselling. Spend a few weeks with both at the same time. Keep the one you prefer. This is an important step. As an example I prefer the M16 over the dbr62 by a wide margin, but you could be the opposite. They do not sound the same.
Then using that keeper as a reference, start getting into DIY with something to validate what you are hearing.
In any case, the tweeter itself seems to be good. But with 91 dB sensitivity and it is combined in C-note with a little bass / middle register on a narrow baffle, then it will be to lower the sensitivity of the tweeter. And with Power Handling (RMS): 20 W so hm.:rolleyes:

Screenshot_2022-04-19_063908.jpg
 

ROOSKIE

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To be clear I wasn't recommending the C-note or OS as actual competitors to the DBR62, or the Hivi / CSS. My recommendation was that generally you can buy both of those kits on the cheap and nearly complete - you need some sort of binding posts / terminals and optional crossover PCBs, and some pillow fluff IIRC, and that's about it. That lets you see if you actually like (parts of) DIY'ing speakers. In the absolute worst case you're out $150 and your time.

It's similar to, when someone says they have never soldered but want to build a tube amp or some moderately deep-end project, tell them to order a cheap DIY FM radio kit from Amazon and start with it instead. That's a more extreme example because these days an FM radio is near to useless, but if they decide they suck at it and hate it they're only out $20.
Yah, but the dude was asking about generally excellent speakers.
The C-notes are not that.
I have built them and tested many retail and DIY designs.
No way I'd wholeheartedly recommend them.
I do understand what you are saying about their low price, however since the OP is going to spend some time why end up with the C-notes? They are truly not more than "basically decent" let alone factoring in build time and effort. Plus they run close to $200 complete now.

In any case, the tweeter itself seems to be good. But with 91 dB sensitivity and it is combined in C-note with a little bass / middle register on a narrow baffle, then it will be to lower the sensitivity of the tweeter. And with Power Handling (RMS): 20 W so hm.:rolleyes:

View attachment 200901
In practice I really did not like the sound of this tweeter.
It does measure well in many respects for a budget tweeter, and the waveguide helps. That said don't kid yourself. This is $3 button tweeter to a manufacturer or OEM and the waveguide is very basic. That guide is nothing like what you would find in something like the JBL 3 series powered monitors or JBL a130 that also use $3 button tweets.
Anyway I thought the little Dayton tweet sounded a bit nasally and and it is not a very detailed tweeter. Reminds me of the tweeter in the Polk T50's. It gets the job done but forget about being impressed. I'd never use this tweeter.
The woofer is very nice for the price but the finished system is very low sensitivity.
I took my C-notes apart and plan to use the woofer for something someday as I like it, no use for the tweets though.

Anyway sorry to poo-poo some stuff here. It is what it is though.
 

DanielT

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Yah, but the dude was asking about generally excellent speakers.
The C-notes are not that.
I have built them and tested many retail and DIY designs.
No way I'd wholeheartedly recommend them.
I do understand what you are saying about their low price, however since the OP is going to spend some time why end up with the C-notes? They are truly not more than "basically decent" let alone factoring in build time and effort. Plus they run close to $200 complete now.


In practice I really did not like the sound of this tweeter.
It does measure well in many respects for a budget tweeter, and the waveguide helps. That said don't kid yourself. This is $3 button tweeter to a manufacturer or OEM and the waveguide is very basic. That guide is nothing like what you would find in something like the JBL 3 series powered monitors or JBL a130 that also use $3 button tweets.
Anyway I thought the little Dayton tweet sounded a bit nasally and and it is not a very detailed tweeter. Reminds me of the tweeter in the Polk T50's. It gets the job done but forget about being impressed. I'd never use this tweeter.
The woofer is very nice for the price but the finished system is very low sensitivity.
I took my C-notes apart and plan to use the woofer for something someday as I like it, no use for the tweets though.

Anyway sorry to poo-poo some stuff here. It is what it is though.
Aha, aha. Interesting. I myself have been thinking of doing something that tweeter, with some simpler DIY construction. For some bedroom speakers.:)

This budget tweeter, if I remember correctly is appreciated:


OT, because it is not a ready-made kit...DIY budget... hm. Maybe a two-way speaker with:


Tc9 is good element, but consider low sensitivity.

Taking into account the high technical performance and very low cost, TC9FD18-08, in my opinion, is just incredible speaker!


plus


In a sealed box 30 liters. Crossover (you have to think about that but tc9 is a broadband element so it is possible to set a low crossover point). Note nothing I counted on in any speaker program but just something I came to think of now. Might be good..... or not.Also, a different type of speaker than the DBR62, it would be. Well, at least one idea, one suggestion only.:)

Part Express suggests for SLS 10:

Optimum Cabinet Size (determined using BassBox 6 Pro High Fidelity suggestion)
Sealed Volume 1.25ft³
Sealed F3 56Hz


Video with SLS 10


Tip, regarding dispersion and waveguide's:


Advantage DIY, it can be tailored according to need, liking and taste:

20220103_141056.jpg

Page four of the thread, many pictures published by ppataki , assembling the speakers.:)

 
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