JBL 4367 review by Erin

[gnarly]

With all due respect how can you comment on fidelity with a pool table in front of the speakers This is reminding me of a forum where a user goes on and on about some Rogue tube amps and has one of his speakers behind a sofa.

haha....it actually helps. Given that the CD center is close to ear height when standing, the pool table serves to lessen the severity of longer-paths floor bounces. Kinda like listening to shorter speakers when sitting
When I listen sitting, its on bar-stool height chairs.

Besides, the pattern control frequency extends quite a bit lower than most speakers,...,and rooms work somewhat differently (better)

 

[More Dynamics Please]

I like conservative/vintage designs of loudspeakers (Tannoy, JBL, ...) as much as contemporary/modern ones.
My post was about undeniable truth that there are universally accepted aesthetic standards.

Universally is defined as by everyone; in every case. So obviously it's not true that there are universally accepted aesthetic standards. It's fair to say that there are widely or generally accepted aesthetic standards that may apply to a majority of people but certainly not all. Minority opinions count as much for the minority as majority opinions do for the majority.

 

[gnarly]

Does the polygon in the middle contain drivers as well? I’m curious if it serves a special purpose other than being a stand for the horn.

Hi, yes it has eleven 4fe35's. It's a twelve sided dodecahedron, drivers on 11 sides, with a pole mount and bass reflex ports on the 12th side.

Dodecs are used for measuring room acoustics, as they excite the room uniformly omni-like. They give better RT-60 measurements etc. than what we get using our regular speakers (particularly as frequency rises)

Dodecahedron Speaker Kit I NTi Audio

Funny you should ask about it.....i just took it apart yesterday, and the final coat of paint is drying while i type.
Brilliant GOLD paint...visual aesthetics ya know !

 

[73hadd]

I always find it interesting how one person perceives sound so differently from the next. I owned the 4367s then the M2s. The 4367s always seemed a bit too sharp on the top end for my tastes. The M2s sounded smoother and the bass went deeper in my small room. The bass hit harder on the 4367s though. I hated the slight hiss the JBL SDEC processor allowed through on the M2 system. There are ways around this though for the creative.

Thanks @fitero , I believe the JBL SDEC is the same as a BSS DSP unit? Can you share some of the creative ways around the hiss?

I can see the desire for a passive system considering the cost, amplifier specs, physical noise, implied non-SOTA dac performance, and audible hiss provided in the Harman solution. I see threads about alternative DSP and amplifier solutions for M2 that all seem to have a high level of effort to implement.

 

[gnarly]

And this is coming from a man who is in the pro loudspeaker business - designing, building, selling and renting big pro loudspeakers.

Like i said, i'm done with belaboring the prior topic....
But i do need to correct your complete misunderstand about my speaker building.

I am not in the business at all, of selling or renting big pro loudspeakers. (or any type gear)

I build speakers and design their processing, in pursuit of the best sound I can obtain.
I simply love audio (the sound, that is ), ......and enjoy woodwork.

The only reason i build big pro size boxes is that they are the best sounding, all-round boxes, i've found yet.
Between my well regarded store bought stuff (both home and pro), and various types of DIY builds, I have a lot to compare to.
I'm definitely into what i call hi-fi PA..

Just my mileage, my saga..

PS ...Please don't be so quick to think you have folks sized up correctly..

 

[changer]

Since the axis is relatively flat and the off-axis cannot be corrected, I don't think the score moves much on the ascending side ..

Besides that with an EQ, sub bass could be extended significantly without a doubt, there is much more, as the balance between the various major components that make up the score, like reference axis linearity, sloping of power et cetera, can always be improved upon when more filters are available than with a passive design.

 

[MZKM]

That said, I prefer the KLIPPEL axis than the Harman axis

What do you mean by this?

 

[DSJR]

no, but when I did she had to put up with large, DIY speakers with unfinished chipboard cabs sat in the living room. She was never bothered about that sort of thing otherwise I wouldn't have been with her in the first place.

You know, thirty to forty years back, I couldn't 'get' the whole 'B&O thing' at all. The sales concept was appealing to the style and home-enhancement aspects of th epurchase and the subsequent owners took the quality for granted. In the meantime, I set up and fiddled with springy belt drive decks, messed around with cable and fuse direction and similar audiophool pursuits!

Today, I currently have a boomy dead sounding sitting room in a boomy house and currently am having to get rid of stuff before I can buy any more. There's a B&O active speaker model (6000) which used to be great in the corners of client's living rooms (some clients hid the speakers behind curtains - honestly!) and they're so cheap on the used market (even later ones in colours) I'm sorely tempted. What to do with the power amps I've accumulated though.... The lozenge shaped 4000's were good too on shelves or (shock horror) on stands... 8000's were a bit 'thumpy' and I wish the active level-variable bass eq could have been adjusted a bit to stop the exuberant thump.

 

[Mart68]

You know, thirty to forty years back, I couldn't 'get' the whole 'B&O thing' at all. The sales concept was appealing to the style and home-enhancement aspects of th epurchase and the subsequent owners took the quality for granted. In the meantime, I set up and fiddled with springy belt drive decks, messed around with cable and fuse direction and similar audiophool pursuits!

Today, I currently have a boomy dead sounding sitting room in a boomy house and currently am having to get rid of stuff before I can buy any more. There's a B&O active speaker model (6000) which used to be great in the corners of client's living rooms (some clients hid the speakers behind curtains - honestly!) and they're so cheap on the used market (even later ones in colours) I'm sorely tempted. What to do with the power amps I've accumulated though.... The lozenge shaped 4000's were good too on shelves or (shock horror) on stands... 8000's were a bit 'thumpy' and I wish the active level-variable bass eq could have been adjusted a bit to stop the exuberant thump.

If you think the 6000 will work for you then go for it.
Shame you are not closer to me we could combine our hoards and open a shop.

 

[Purité Audio]

You know, thirty to forty years back, I couldn't 'get' the whole 'B&O thing' at all. The sales concept was appealing to the style and home-enhancement aspects of th epurchase and the subsequent owners took the quality for granted. In the meantime, I set up and fiddled with springy belt drive decks, messed around with cable and fuse direction and similar audiophool pursuits!

Today, I currently have a boomy dead sounding sitting room in a boomy house and currently am having to get rid of stuff before I can buy any more. There's a B&O active speaker model (6000) which used to be great in the corners of client's living rooms (some clients hid the speakers behind curtains - honestly!) and they're so cheap on the used market (even later ones in colours) I'm sorely tempted. What to do with the power amps I've accumulated though.... The lozenge shaped 4000's were good too on shelves or (shock horror) on stands... 8000's were a bit 'thumpy' and I wish the active level-variable bass eq could have been adjusted a bit to stop the exuberant thump.

REW and a microphone would be the first things I would buy for a less boomy room.
Keith

 

[Keened]

Hi, yes it has eleven 4fe35's. It's a twelve sided dodecahedron, drivers on 11 sides, with a pole mount and bass reflex ports on the 12th side.

Dodecs are used for measuring room acoustics, as they excite the room uniformly omni-like. They give better RT-60 measurements etc. than what we get using our regular speakers (particularly as frequency rises)

Dodecahedron Speaker Kit I NTi Audio

Funny you should ask about it.....i just took it apart yesterday, and the final coat of paint is drying while i type.
Brilliant GOLD paint...visual aesthetics ya know !

I have absolutely no idea how you would get power to them, not mess with the cone drivers, or even make sure they stay there: but I need to see a pair of these floating in the air and rotating around as music plays.

 

[fineMen]

... What to do with the power amps I've accumulated though....

Buy an M2!

The single only reason to chose xxxx over the M2 is the extra amplification for the latter, right? There are minor differences, but basically, honestly, due to the same concept the results are very similar in every aspect.

For the appropriately enthusiastic customer the setup of the M2 should be easy. Either he buys competence in, or has it at his own hands already. In result, the M2 allows to steer the vertical distribution of sound. It can be optimized to the customer's needs. Erin tested the M2 without adjustments. What do You expect?

Somebody wrote that aesthetics follow undeniable rules. I would agree.

Both, M2 and xxxx break those rules deliberately. The xxxx actually hurts me. The M2 I personally cannot accept. The trusty 4330 I like:

https://audio-database.com/JBL/speaker/4430.JPG

L300, happily acceptable--especially in 'peach':

https://audio-database.com/JBL/speaker/l300.JPG

It is not the 'pro' looks of M2/xxxx or the veneer or something for itself. The utterly unconnected hash of design elements in illogical combination it is. Visually confusing, slippery, doesn't tell, no story, no rest for the eyes, no confirmation, clueless!

JBL (nearly) always was like that. Scattered conservatism. It was pleasent as long as the abstracted looks was light-heartedly excused by technical genius. Especially the iconic JBL 15", and subsequently authoritive, well defined lower mids, human voice range (I mean it) never came close to any doubt.

Now they should move on.

 

[Vladimir Filevski]

What are you referring to? An uncomfortable chair or hair styles?

I am referring to everything, including comfortable chairs. These two are in every book of wonderful, ergonomic design:

Barcelona chair from 1929, designed by Ludwig Mies van der Rohe and Lilly Reich:

Lounge chair from 1956, designed by Charles and Ray Eames:

 

[Vladimir Filevski]

.. obviously it's not true that there are universally accepted aesthetic standards. It's fair to say that there are widely or generally accepted aesthetic standards that may apply to a majority of people but certainly not all. Minority opinions count as much for the minority as majority opinions do for the majority.

Oh really?

What the "minority report" says about this?

 

[changer]

Can we leave any comparisons between speakers and women who have been working as models for beach fashion products out of this thread, please? IMHO, the quality of conversation is descending at an alarming rate.

 

[Keened]

Can we leave any comparisons between speakers and women who have been working as models for beach fashion products out of this thread, please? IMHO, the quality of conversation is descending at an alarming rate.

Also she wasn't even the best fashion model of that time period. She was pushed on the general public against the clear aesthetic sea change of the time. Always rubbed me the wrong way, although I'm sure she's fine as a person.

 

[Vladimir Filevski]

I was just defending my opinion that there are universally accepted aesthetic standards - for everything: loudspeakers, chairs, girls...

Edit:
Back on track. Bottom line: JBL 4367 measures excellent, sounds excellent (I can confirm that), aesthetically is tolerable/acceptable/adorable, and is expensive - big time. And there are no competitors (15" + horn) with the same qualities, but at lower cost.

 

[fredoamigo]

What do you mean by this?

That there are always some differences (and it is normal) between the measurements of the time which come from the anechoic chamber harman and that of a Klippel NFS...so here I prefer the "on axis" of the klippel

 

[Zvu]

...
Edit:
Back on track. Bottom line: JBL 4367 measures excellent, sounds excellent (I can confirm that), aesthetically is tolerable/acceptable/adorable, and is expensive - big time. And there are no competitors (15" + horn) with the same qualities, but at lower cost.

15" is there to provide high sensitivity. Nothing special about 15" and a horn.

Also, i'm not sure there are no competitors. JTR Noesis 212RT is a three way passive loudspeaker priced at 5600$ a pair. Measurements here:

JTR Noesis 212RT Review and Measurements

JTR Speakers is a small American-made speaker manufacturer based in Wisconsin. JTR sells high-end custom home theater speakers as well as a line of pro-audio speakers. All of JTR’s speakers rely on either waveguides or large coaxial drivers, the smallest of which is 10”s. As a result, it...

www.avnirvana.com

As for aesthetics, you can choose another finish from manufacturer and if you really want to go over the top, you can send the speakers to Jim Salk that will for 1500-2000$ do veeneer you like that will match your interior - something that JBL can't. And you'll still be at 7600$.

What is competitive or not we would be able to see if we would have more detailed measurements of larger number of Pro loudspeakers. We will get there eventually.

 

[DSJR]

REW and a microphone would be the first things I would buy for a less boomy room.
Keith

If we were staying, I'd agree with you. Many changes coming here, so we'll see once it's settled. In the meantime I'll try not to bore you lot rigid here