Top 3 hi-fi brands (and "honorable mentions")

[VMAT4]

How much durability is needed for something to sit on a hifi rack in a dry room? The demands are obviously much higher for pro gear that gets tossed about, or at the very least rewired regularly. Oddly enough, such gear is typically much cheaper than audiophile brands. Guess it's not durability you're paying for after all.

Well, I had an AVR once that just out of the blue when I pressed the power button, went pop! It had "broken ". It was an NAD. That happened about 15 or 16 years ago. The cost of repair was prohibitive.

I had not one but two NAD CD players. Both of these came to their demise when out of the blue their CD trays wouldn't open.

Evidently, these pieces didn't have enough durability to sit in a hifi rack in a dry room and perform their duties. My guess is cost cutting led to the unreliable/non-durable products.

 

[Grave]

1) Sennheiser
2) Sennheiser
3) Sennheiser

I do not think that their cheap open headphones can be beat at any price.

 

[vert]

http://rotel.com/our-story

(you were probably thinking of Revox)

There actually is a Swiss Rotel, they make household appliances. I too thought initially they had an audio branch.

 

[JJB70]

I think durability matters, although if something is cheap enough then treating it as disposable can make sense. The problem is that for me at least most audio gear is beyond that price point.
I have had a stereo system for over 20 years which is still used regularly and which has never missed a beat. It wasn't cheap (a mix of early 90's Sony Es stuff and Kenwood with Castle speakers ) but it wasn't that expensive either. I bought once but bought right and there is a pleasure of ownership in owning very well made equipment with a lovely build and finish. I see very little electronics equipment come close to that quality now. The argument is that product life cycles are much shorter but for stuff like 2 channel amplifiers, speakers and CD players the state of the art hasn't moved on that much. Although price points have dropped.
I still have a Sony 7600 short wave radio (that was a true classic design!) which went around the world multiple times (including to Antarctica) with me on ships for 15 years, it's now 29 years old and still works and is still immaculate. Sony really knew how to make stuff in those days.

 

[Thomas savage]

Pioneer
Quad
Ayre

Don’t think much of Audio research , terrible reliability from what Iv heard. Iv had Krell stuff that while built like a brick shit house was over engineered and ridiculous to service and repair . The only bit of hifi that’s not failed me is my TAD D1000. The rest have suffered criminally with problems in both build and Design. I’d put the whole high end hifi industry behind bars and not to serve me beer either as I’m sure they’d bugger that up too.

 

[mansr]

Well, I had an AVR once that just out of the blue when I pressed the power button, went pop! It had "broken ". It was an NAD. That happened about 15 or 16 years ago. The cost of repair was prohibitive.

Sounds like a power supply issue. Is it possible that it fell victim to the capacitor plague?

I had not one but two NAD CD players. Both of these came to their demise when out of the blue their CD trays wouldn't open.

How old were they? I've seen several CD players (including Philips and B&O) where the rubber belts driving the tray had lost their elasticity.

Evidently, these pieces didn't have enough durability to sit in a hifi rack in a dry room and perform their duties. My guess is cost cutting led to the unreliable/non-durable products.

Anything with moving parts or electrolytic capacitors will eventually fail. That said, a product built to endure 20-30 years of normal use should not cost a fortune. Again, pro audio is proof of this.

 

[svart-hvitt]

ON RELIABILITY

This story, from Genelec's 40th anniversary book (https://www.genelec.com/sites/default/files/media/About Us/40th_anniversary_book_en.pdf), is fascinating reading. This is a story that goes back about 40 years, about the time when Genelec got their first order from Yleisradio, the Finnish national broadcaster:

”The basic principles of our products were drawn from the needs of Yleisradio: the speakers needed to be reliable and uniform in quality. We had to document them well so that we were able to show how the product left the factory. We needed to supply spare parts after 10 years from when the product had been ramped down. These were the demands of a national broadcasting company,” explained Ilpo Martikainen.
Risto Syrjä, the sound maintenance manager at Yleisradio, was known as a demanding individual (...) “Syrjä gave a hard time to manufacturers but he didit based on experience,” reflected Ilpo. “In a testing situation he could reel back and say it was the cleaner who bumped into the monitor. The product couldn’t break. The customer taught us how things had to be done and we wanted to listen. Genelec products were built like tanks, to last. They needed to last even when falling to the floor. This is simply our way of working, and philosophy has its roots in the broadcasting world.” He added: “We had to choose to take an international approach and we had to deliver reliability of products because we chose this business.”
Quote from the 40th anniversary book

And this may explain why Genelec is able to go the extra mile in terms of reliability, longevity and serviceability:

Genelec is a family-owned company, where profits are produced as a consequence of doing business
in the most ethical and sustainable manner. The company’s goal has never been to make as muchmoney as possible.
Quote from the 40th anniversary book

So "built like tanks" is a pretty good description. Even the plastic on the back where you have the input connectivity feels like carbon and not the hollow plastic you find in some electronic gear.

 

[Ron Texas]

1. Schitt, for puling the wool over most people's eyes.
2. Beats, for overpriced mediocre headphones and great marketing.
3. Apple, for the iPhone and wireless earbuds. Who needs a great music system when you can be a mobile phone zombie.

Runner up: Bose

 

[JJB70]

I worry that I'm becoming old as over the last few days I've been reading amplifier reviews on here and telling myself they don't make'em like they used to, oh dear.....

I think there has been a real shift, the shorter life span of typical electronic devices, the shift to computer based audio and shifting formats and software means that the craftsmanship and build quality of yore has gone (especially the crazy levels of attention to quality of the Japanese brands in their prime). On the other hand it is also true that terrific performance has never been more affordable or accessible and people now take functionality for granted that we wouldn't have imagined 20 - 30 years ago. Horses for courses I guess.

If given the choice I'd happily buy the wares of companies like Accuphase as despite top performance being available for a fraction of the price there is something compelling (to me at least) about goods engineered to that standard, it's not about the performance really but just the joy I get from seeing something which is just superbly designed and made from top quality materials and components.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

There actually is a Swiss Rotel, they make household appliances. I too thought initially they had an audio branch.

And there is an American Rotel and they make hot stuff.

 

[Ron Texas]

And there is an American Rotel and they make hot stuff.View attachment 17403

Down here there is (or used to be) a band called "Rotel and the Hot Tomatoes". There were 4 female vocalists who wore retro dresses and wigs. It was a great show.

 

[Wombat]

Well, I had an AVR once that just out of the blue when I pressed the power button, went pop! It had "broken ". It was an NAD. That happened about 15 or 16 years ago. The cost of repair was prohibitive.

I had not one but two NAD CD players. Both of these came to their demise when out of the blue their CD trays wouldn't open.

Evidently, these pieces didn't have enough durability to sit in a hifi rack in a dry room and perform their duties. My guess is cost cutting led to the unreliable/non-durable products.

I have had that CD tray problem on Panasonic and Philips players and now my Yamaha player won't open on first push on the button. The Panasonic problem was disablement due to an inbuilt 'send to service' scam that Panasonic was later exposed for.

 

[restorer-john]

I had not one but two NAD CD players. Both of these came to their demise when out of the blue their CD trays wouldn't open.

Evidently, these pieces didn't have enough durability to sit in a hifi rack in a dry room and perform their duties. My guess is cost cutting led to the unreliable/non-durable products.

99% of tray loading CD players use 1-3 loading belts, along with gear trains, racks and clamping mechanisms. Regardless of the price of the product, belts have a finite life, as does the lubrication (or lack thereof).

That said, there were some hideously cheap mechanisms used by many manufacturers in the pursuit of cost cutting. NAD were no stranger to using such mechanisms.

 

[Thomas savage]

I’d give a honourable mention to Arcam..

 

[Thomas savage]

99% of tray loading CD players use 1-3 loading belts, along with gear trains, racks and clamping mechanisms. Regardless of the price of the product, belts have a finite life, as does the lubrication (or lack thereof).

That said, there were some hideously cheap mechanisms used by many manufacturers in the pursuit of cost cutting. NAD were no stranger to using such mechanisms.

Iv had belt failures and Cog rot, both easy to fit fortunately.

 

[Wombat]

Luxman

https://www.facebook.com/luxman.jap...s-from-high-end-munich-2018/1659883490714655/

I still have an R-1050 receiver that I purchased new(late 70s).

 

[Blumlein 88]

How much durability is needed for something to sit on a hifi rack in a dry room? The demands are obviously much higher for pro gear that gets tossed about, or at the very least rewired regularly. Oddly enough, such gear is typically much cheaper than audiophile brands. Guess it's not durability you're paying for after all.

I think for a time, and maybe that time has passed a little bit, McIntosh was selling rep and pretty cases and poor quality. This article about extremely high jitter digital sources nails it. From 10 years ago. I think they are back onto to good quality mostly now.

https://www.stereophile.com/content/case-jitters-less-cd-quality

A $6000 McIntosh media server had the honor for highest jitter they'd tested. It was very outclassed by the next worst unit. An early Sony Playstation 1. A $25 second hand item. So if that Mac is built heavy duty like most Mac gear you'll get to have that performance level for a long, long time.

I've had a few old Mac pieces. They were rather high performance for their time, and beautifully made and very heavy duty. Some worked as good as new despite 35 to 40 years of use. There isn't all that much wrong with being far more reliably built than need be to sit on a shelf indoors and play. You are going to pay a little too high a premium for that as that is simply how the market goes. I don't consider that as bad as flimsy expensive esoteric gear that also isn't reliable, but claims some voodoo benefits.

 

[watchnerd]

What is in your opinion the top 3 brands in hi-fi ?

Research:
Harman
Dolby
Sony

Pro:
JBL Pro
AKG
Avid Technologies / Pro Tools

Historic:
Klipsch
Studer/Revox (also vintage pro)
Marantz

Phono:
SME
Ortofon
Technics

Digital:
Roon
MQA
Tidal

Domestic Speakers:
B&W
JBL Synthesis
Sonos

Domestic Electronics:
McIntosh
Apple
Amazon Alexa/Echo

Snake Oil:
TICE
Nordost
Furutech

 

[watchnerd]

What is in your opinion the top 3 brands in hi-fi ?

Here is my list:
1. Benchmark Media Systems (world-class performance, competitive price, comes in nice and small boxes, user-friendly gear, honest brand, anti-BS brand, outstanding customer service).

Benchmark makes some nice products, but they're little known and super niche.

Even Bryston has had more impact on the world.

 

[Blumlein 88]

Research:
Harman
Dolby
Sony

Pro:
JBL Pro
AKG
Avid Technologies / Pro Tools

Historic:
Klipsch
Studer/Revox (also vintage pro)
Marantz

Phono:
SME
Ortofon
Technics

Digital:
Roon
MQA
Tidal

Domestic Speakers:
B&W
JBL Synthesis
Sonos

Domestic Electronics:
McIntosh
Apple
Amazon Alexa/Echo

Snake Oil:
TICE
Nordost
Furutech

Come on, you might as well tell the truth. Samsung/Harman. They are behind several products you list.