Really, it shouldn't be necessary to "discover" something useful about a product though...
Doesn't everyone like surprises?
Really, it shouldn't be necessary to "discover" something useful about a product though...
Agreed! I own one, and am currently furious and unclear what to do next. The PS Audio forum continues to blow my mind. The PS Audio website descriptions of the product continues to detail "regenerates new, safe, and pure AC", when PS Audio themselves are now stating the device neither generates new AC nor pure AC.
Thank you! Yep. Its wild that so many people there refuse to believe the truth being presented, and even possibly believe they were duped as well. Feels like they are already too far gone.I believe I saw some of your posts there. You were asking for more information in the politest way possible, but encountering all sorts of dodging, weaving and deflection. It was sad.
Thank you! Yep. Its wild that so many people there refuse to believe the truth being presented, and even possibly believe they were duped as well. Feels like they are already too far gone.
I used the Scientology parallel in a comment there.PS Audio and Paul in particular are masters at creating uncertainty and doubt, even fear, in the audio community and specifically target those that may not understand, those who have trust in PS Audio to not mislead them. It's not far off the operational standards of the Church of Scientology. I hope they can change for the better, as being honest about products is paramount to running a good business.
JSmith
The sheer amount of gaslighting over there is rather impressive.
Take PS Audio to court, and if you win, share the process with others so that PS Audio can learn through a mechanism (justice system) less easily manipulated through social media and FUD. At the very least, file complaints with various regulators, BBB, Consumer Protection entities, and the local government. People need to take away their cost/benefit of putting out misleading products.Agreed! I own one, and am currently furious and unclear what to do next. The PS Audio forum continues to blow my mind. The PS Audio website descriptions of the product continues to detail "regenerates new, safe, and pure AC", when PS Audio themselves are now stating the device neither generates new AC nor pure AC.
I would say more than the company. It is reflective of "audiophile" culture in general which is inherently narcissistic. Gaslighting is their main thing.Disgusting is what it is. It is a concerted effort, with a cabal of regulars who get away with all kinds of insults and deflection. In my mind, it is reflective of the company.
I have an Elgar 6000B. They used similar scheme in 1974 as PS Audio. They have a detailed manual with schematics, typical of good instrumentation. And a section on how to adjust the reference oscillator phase so the regenerated signal removes the most of the harmonics. And a section on how to measure and verify harmonics are minimized, as well as tests and collaterals to verify most of the published specifications.So netting it out:
View attachment 195843
One leg of AC goes from input to output. Then the other leg is regenerated with +- 60 volt amplifier in sync with the incoming AC.
And I am having a hard time given he measurements and the facts here thinking the P12 does anything different
Thanks for the correction.It does do something different. in the PPP the correction signal is directly added to mains Live. In the Elgar the output is galvanically separated, the PPP is not.
In the Elgar the correction signal is added to a secondary winding of the transformer. This means the transformer of the PPP can be smaller in size/weight compared to the one used in the Elgar.
Also the synchronization and reference generation is not digital but all analog.
Because this is digital in the PPP it allows functions like MultiWave and analysis displays.
So while they have a similar function (mains + correction) the PPP is smarter in efficiency (heat generation) and functionality but the Elgar, when measured, may well be a bit cleaner in waveform and when not bypassed.
The fact that Amir is a bit of a sourpuss in no way is relevant to the fact that PSAudio has not answered the challenge to provide blind test results to show their product actually does anything for $6000. What should happen now is that people should see how much money they took from COVID funding, and see what they did with that money. Maybe we have a little accounting issue to investigate.
Have you contacted PSAudio about a refund? Make sure you do not say anything, just ask for information on how to proceed for returning your device give the current facts out. I would think that 12 of your peers would take your side, don't you?Agreed! I own one, and am currently furious and unclear what to do next. The PS Audio forum continues to blow my mind. The PS Audio website descriptions of the product continues to detail "regenerates new, safe, and pure AC", when PS Audio themselves are now stating the device neither generates new AC nor pure AC.
I meant they should develop products, as Schiit started doing with Amir's help, that measure well enough to sell in quantities larger than the one they sold to Amir's friend that Amir says is worthless.You said they should go with the measurements. Measurements will always show that power conditioning of any form will never** make improvemenents to the audio quality on the output of audio devices, for the reasons clearly stated by Amir. Therefore if they go with the measurements they'll have to admit that, though they can improve mains qualtity with these devices, they can never make the improvements to audio they currently claim they can.
** (except in cases of exceptionally poor mains quality that prevents kit from running properly at all - but then basic UPS at 1/10th the price or less will do the same job)
Have you contacted PSAudio about a refund? Make sure you do not say anything, just ask for information on how to proceed for returning your device give the current facts out. I would think that 12 of your peers would take your side, don't you?
It's not far off the operational standards of the Church of Scientology.