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PS Audio PowerPlant P12 Amplifier Tests (Video)

Geert

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There are some EEs in there calmly, civilly giving reasons for their technical questions about the PS Audio unit, and this is being met as usual by a cohort of people flinging sh*t at them, ad hominem after ad hominem - "troll" "stop calling people liars" "stop pretending to be our dad!"
The same behaviour that drives knowledge people out of subjective forums, while the people doing so believe they are open minded and moral superior.
 

voodooless

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On the other hand, why do any of you care if those that are presented empirical evidence that these devices don't do much for the money, continue to spend money on such products? Honestly, these types of arguments have been around well before Noel Lee made his first "Monster Cable" and will be around in perpetuity in the audiophile world. Why does someone spend $10,000 on a power cable? The fuck if I know. I do appreciate good testing to make me a better informed consumer but if someone has the money to throw at this overpriced stuff, why do any of you care? The review itself it warning enough. If they choose to close their eyes to it, so be it. Moving right along...
Because for anyone that does not care, there are several others that do.

Plus the fact that these companies need to be exposed for the frauds they are. If people still choose to fall for it.. I’m not going to stop them.
 

multisport4me

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You're not going to stop them. Someone that spends $5k on a power conditioner has likely done all the homework they're willing to do when they spend it. They have money to piss away. Some may care about this data, others may never understand it nor care to understand it. And all will keep spending outrageous money on magical boxes, tweaks, fixes that do precisely nothing on the bench but if they hear what they want to hear, why should we care?

That said, I think exposing the manufacturers in a methodically, quantitative way like Amir does is a noble cause. He provides a data driven view that should better inform those making such buying decisions....if they choose to be informed. I draw the line at going on and on about what idiots people are though. We've seen a lot of idiocy in this world in recent times and I haven't seen too many instances of one side mocking the other changing their views. Hell, if they won't change their mind looking at scientific evidence, I'm quite certain calling them idiots won't do the trick either.
 

BlackTalon

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“A reliable way to make people believe in falsehoods is frequent repetition, because familiarity is not easily distinguished from truth. Authoritarian institutions and marketers have always known this fact.” -- Daniel Kahneman, Nobel Prize Winner in Economic Sciences
So PS Audio = Putin-Speak Audio?

It's all in the wording... It's enough to make people who don't pay much attention believe just about anything.
 
OP
amirm

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On the other hand, why do any of you care if those that are presented empirical evidence that these devices don't do much for the money, continue to spend money on such products?
I don't care other than making sure a bunch of lay arguments don't cloud the real data here for people yet to spend their money. It is core to our charter here. This is why I do the youtube videos so that it is clear what the conclusions of testing is.

Honestly, these types of arguments have been around well before Noel Lee made his first "Monster Cable" and will be around in perpetuity in the audiophile world.
But I was not doing what I am doing now. The level of analysis and power internet is allowing new mechanism to get the truth out there. No reason to be defeatist based on what magazines did year ago. Misinformation is rampant in audio and it is never too late to deal with it.
 
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amirm

amirm

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You're not going to stop them. Someone that spends $5k on a power conditioner has likely done all the homework they're willing to do when they spend it.
Quite wrong. Click on the video again and read the youtube comments. There are good number of people thinking again about purchasing such boxes. We are making a difference for sure. We have started a transformation in audio that is getting stronger every day. We didn't become three times the size of stereophile.com because people are the people they used to be.
 

audiofooled

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Sometime ago one of my speaker terminals had gradually become loose. The system sounded great to my ears with exception that imaging was a bit shifted in a way that phantom center still remained dead center but only the far left cues were more defined than the far right ones. Over the course of the entire year I did nothing to the system but enjoyed the music the same way I did before and got accustomed to the way it sounds. In a way, my sound stage was an analogy of when you would always take a left seat in a movie theater and watch the screen in a slightly shifted perspective, or maybe you take a left seat in a concert. But, for me it took a long period of time to "move to the left" so I did not have any clue and it became perfectly normal. When the time came for moving the speakers before repainting the living room I had found out that exactly one of the right speaker terminals was almost completely loose. Imagine the impedance! The right speaker was powered by something like a hair of wire at best. Just enough that it didn't make any noticeable funny noises. It just played a bit more quietly than the left one but it had barely played any bass.

You guys wouldn't believe the value of a "free upgrade" when everything was finally back in it's place and properly and tightly connected. I mean, to say that the veil was lifted would be a huge understatement. And then it came to me. Not only was I unable to hear/perceive any real degradation to the SQ other than before mentioned (even that I realized only when I knew it was loose), but I really didn't miss a full 3 db of bass! Nor "midbass coupling"! Just the left speaker (with a help of room gain) was able to impact my body just enough on occasional loud sessions (I didn't have a sub at the time). I still laugh at this experience and it still is one of the most humbling audiophile moments I've ever had.

My point is, I still enjoyed the music and was really clueless that something went wrong. So much for the entire "trust your ears" concept, huh? And then someone tells you that power regenerators and fancy cables work? In all fairness, I think we need some more Amir's for hair and beauty products and what not.
 

TheBatsEar

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Nobody else noticed ;-)
nqekOUR.gif
 

multisport4me

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Quite wrong. Click on the video again and read the youtube comments. There are good number of people thinking again about purchasing such boxes. We are making a difference for sure. We have started a transformation in audio that is getting stronger every day. We didn't become three times the size of stereophile.com because people are the people they used to be.
Fair enough! I hope some folks use your reviews to make better choices. I also hope manufacturers of such devices work harder to make the performance of these things match the marketing hype....but I'm doubtful. Either way, name calling and shaming of such buyers doesn't seem to be the best way to change minds and that was really the gist of my poorly worded post.
 

Hipster Doofus

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Thanks….sorry it takes so much work before we even arrive at a place where facts begin to matter….not being inclined to memorize , let alone transfer the concepts explained here , it is very useful to see the reviews from beginning to end. I just donated a second time a week ago thinking I can at least spend the cost of stereophile’s dribble. I recommend anyone else who has made a purchase based on science do the same…Here Here!

How did I do Amir ;)
 

Angsty

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On the other hand, why do any of you care if those that are presented empirical evidence that these devices don't do much for the money, continue to spend money on such products? Honestly, these types of arguments have been around well before Noel Lee made his first "Monster Cable" and will be around in perpetuity in the audiophile world. Why does someone spend $10,000 on a power cable? The fuck if I know. I do appreciate good testing to make me a better informed consumer but if someone has the money to throw at this overpriced stuff, why do any of you care? The review itself it warning enough. If they choose to close their eyes to it, so be it. Moving right along...
I'm less concerned about the person buying a $10,000 power cable than the person buying a $100 cable thinking it will create better performance than a $10 one. Even if you have a $100 to spend, you should not be fooled into buying the more expensive cable on the basis of audibility.
 

BDWoody

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But I was not doing what I am doing now. The level of analysis and power internet is allowing new mechanism to get the truth out there.

i-sense-a-b074739c74.jpg
 

multisport4me

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Back to reality....now I wonder if my old Powerplant 5 hurts my pre-pro performance? Again, all of my power amps are on dedicated 20a circuits direct to the wall. I've never perceived any improvements in audio with it - but I don't perceive any harm either with my current setup. I've kept it more for the power sequencing.
 
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MattHooper

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Oh man, on the PS Audio thread one of the PS Audio designers is spouting nonsense about how "better" (read more expensive) HDMI cables produce better image quality than standard HDMI cables. He's being "educated" by an EE who actually works with video, explaining why his claims make no sense given how HDMI and digital displays work. Even I knew enough to know this guy's claims were absurd! If I needed more reason not to take PS Audio too seriously....
 

ozric

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Oh my, that PS Audio guy has no idea what he is talking about lol. He's tying himself into knots trying to explain how a better HDMI cable results in more vivd colors, sharper images... He has absolutely no clue!
 

DonR

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Oh my, that PS Audio guy has no idea what he is talking about lol. He's tying himself into knots trying to explain how a better HDMI cable results in more vivd colors, sharper images... He has absolutely no clue!
If I use an audiophile Ethernet cable will my p0rn be improved? :) Asking for a friend.
 
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