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They have murdered "Tears for Fears" ... digitally!

Is this an outrage?


  • Total voters
    52
  • Poll closed .

MRC01

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Why are you so surprised? This heavy dynamic compression that squeezes the life out of the music and makes it sound like a giant wall of distortion is standard for most new music outside the classical realm. I've seen this on so many albums I've stopped listening to modern music, it gives me a headache/earache.
 
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TheBatsEar

TheBatsEar

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Is not selling anything as high-resolution a joke?
It is.

Why are you so surprised? This heavy dynamic compression that squeezes the life out of the music and makes it sound like a giant wall of distortion is standard for most new music outside the classical realm. I've seen this on so many albums I've stopped listening to modern music, it gives me a headache/earache.
I might get laughed at by the unwashed brutes, but i like Tears for Fears. Seeing them murdered like this, when there is no good reason to do so, it hurts my softer side. I may be a bat, but i'm just human after all.
 

MRC01

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... I might get laughed at by the unwashed brutes, but i like Tears for Fears. Seeing them murdered like this, when there is no good reason to do so, it hurts my softer side. I may be a bat, but i'm just human after all.
They are probably complicit in this musical crime. They're a big enough act, they have plenty of say in how their album sounds. If you like Tears for Fears and want to hear a recording that does justice to their music, check out the Steven Wilson remaster of their famous album from the 80s.
 

Mart68

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I find that unconvincing and vague.
  • basic noise floor of -70dB (A-weighted) if we’re lucky – stylus scraping along a groove in plastic, vinyl has finite grain size
  • warped records cause various problems
  • record wear
  • record contamination: dust, dirt, vinyl particles
  • fundamental limitations in linearity of vinyl cutting/replay system
  • diameter loss: speed of groove decreases throughout LP, increasing noise and distortion and reducing upper frequency response
  • pre-echo: adjacent groove modulation
  • sound from speakers feeds back into the pickup
  • Channel separation: varies with frequency and typically only 20-30 dB at maximum
  • Record may be pressed towards end of life of the stamper, resulting in increased levels of various distortions
 

Razorhelm

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Why are you so surprised? This heavy dynamic compression that squeezes the life out of the music and makes it sound like a giant wall of distortion is standard for most new music outside the classical realm. I've seen this on so many albums I've stopped listening to modern music, it gives me a headache/earache.
The part that surprised me is that they are not doing it for all versions! I knew it was common place now but I didn't know it might be done to one format and not another!
 
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TheBatsEar

TheBatsEar

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  • basic noise floor of -70dB (A-weighted) if we’re lucky – stylus scraping along a groove in plastic, vinyl has finite grain size
  • warped records cause various problems
  • record wear
  • record contamination: dust, dirt, vinyl particles
  • fundamental limitations in linearity of vinyl cutting/replay system
  • diameter loss: speed of groove decreases throughout LP, increasing noise and distortion and reducing upper frequency response
  • pre-echo: adjacent groove modulation
  • sound from speakers feeds back into the pickup
  • Channel separation: varies with frequency and typically only 20-30 dB at maximum
  • Record may be pressed towards end of life of the stamper, resulting in increased levels of various distortions
Fair enough. I was thinking about the mixing only. The medium below is flawed indeed, even if the mix is better.
 

pma

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Why are you so surprised? This heavy dynamic compression that squeezes the life out of the music and makes it sound like a giant wall of distortion is standard for most new music outside the classical realm. I've seen this on so many albums I've stopped listening to modern music, it gives me a headache/earache.
That’s it. Paradoxically, people applauding to 120 dB SINAD are then listening to these horrible music streams.
 
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TheBatsEar

TheBatsEar

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That’s it. Paradoxically, people applauding to 120 dB SINAD are then listening to these horrible music streams.
9f75259f7089ab3d7fa097c68be55e7fb27fbd135b079ea6310c7b2503ea22f6.png

Not by choice.
 

CinDyment

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Check this out:

ALL the existing digital formats are screwed! The compression, the clipping!

Quoting my buddy Danny:
"The sound engineers should be shot.
Out of a cannon.
Into the sun."

LP (DR10):
View attachment 191229

This is a linear waveform display. When you consider rumble and other non-audible and audible anomalies of vinyl, I expect this does not look all that different from the digital one you posted. There is no evidence of a ton of dynamic range here. The DR algorithms give vinyl a better number than they deserve.
 
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TheBatsEar

TheBatsEar

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Here's one of the tracks from the blu-ray for the sake of comparison:

View attachment 191293
Not sure how to parse that. Are you able to calculate the dynamic range? Could be as simple as using this python script over your files:

dr14_tmeter -d -b will scan all files in the current folder.
 

dasdoing

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has anybody actualy heard the examples given in the link?
the presentation is very sensationalistic

you can actualy download the examples and for example AB them in Foobar.

here is ED1 and ED3 in Audacity both braught to -14Lufs. dynamics don't seam to differ, it basicly just limiting, not compressing

1646779088938.png
 
Last edited:

mongobot

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Not sure how to parse that. Are you able to calculate the dynamic range? Could be as simple as using this python script over your files:

dr14_tmeter -d -b will scan all files in the current folder.
I wasn't able to get this to work for me, but using JRiver Media Center, it reports the DR level is 13 for the above track:

Screen Shot 2022-03-08 at 2.50.55 PM.png
 

mhardy6647

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I was interested right up until the last word of the title.
Yeah, me, too -- I kind of figured they'd get The Big Chair, you know?
Sombody musta retained the services of an ex-CIA or KGB operative who could murder 'em with a digit.

:cool::facepalm:
 

levimax

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The part that surprised me is that they are not doing it for all versions! I knew it was common place now but I didn't know it might be done to one format and not another!
The inherent limitations of LP's prevent the very worst compression from being used.... if too loud/ compressed the stylus won't stay in the groove. It is also not completely accurate to compare the DR of and LP and digital recording... LP's will tend to score higher DR than they really are.
 
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