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What does Trinnov do that others don’t?

tknx

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I have read the reviews but really when it comes down to it, what is it about Trinnov that is so much better than Dirac or Audyssey?
 

DonH56

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Far greater flexibility in setting filters (more filters and filter types with direct user control of their parameters) with far greater ability to control the result, more options for things like crossovers and target curves, more flexible bass management, more presets, greater control of channel parameters, etc. Trinnov also tends to have more decoders and get newer ones sooner than other AVRs, and higher channel count. I am sure I have left out a lot. The best thing to do is to download the manuals for the models you are considering and compare.

Kal did a review in his Stereophile column of the Trinnov Altitude 32.
 
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tknx

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So I guess why is having more filters and adjustability not replicable? Like none of that feels like anything that would be out of reach for APO or other PC software except for the licensed codecs.
 

maverickronin

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So I guess why is having more filters and adjustability not replicable? Like none of that feels like anything that would be out of reach for APO or other PC software except for the licensed codecs.

The new height channel codecs are the primary reason to buy an AVR/AVP in the first place so you need to compare it against other AVR/AVPs.

None of the mass market brands have that kind of flexibility. IIRC Storm Audio is their only real competitor on that front.
 

nerdoldnerdith

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The most significant difference between Trinnov and other processors IMO is its ability to measure the exact position of each speaker in your room using its 3D microphone and remap content to your speaker layout. Processors from the likes of Denon, Onkyo, Yamaha, etc. and even high-end processors like Storm and Audio Control can only measure distance. Trinnov measures distance as well as angle in both the horizontal and vertical domain. If your speakers are not placed perfectly in the room at reference angles, content will not be rendered correctly on other receivers. The Trinnov can render content in a way optimized for your less-than-ideal speaker layout. For most of us with rooms that prevent us from putting speakers perfectly at reference angles this makes a huge difference for immersion and accuracy.

Interestingly enough, the Trinnov does not have anything equivalent to Dirac Live Bass Control. It will measure each sub in your room and apply delays and filters as necessary, but it won't integrate them as a single source and phase align them with the mains like Dirac can do.
 
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Sancus

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Trinnov can spatially remap speakers so they sound like they're in different locations than they actually are, and it apparently actually works, which is not something I've ever heard of anyone else even attempting to get right. So that's pretty cool.

I believe Trinnov's 3D mic, in addition to showing precise spatial locations of all speakers, can also separately measure speaker direct and first reflection sound and show them to you separately. That's quite useful because while you can sorta do this with REW and windowing, it takes some trial and error and guesswork.

Interestingly enough, the Trinnov does not have anything equivalent to Dirac Live Bass Control. It will measure each sub in your room and apply delays and filters as necessary, but it won't integrate them as a single source and phase align them with the mains like Dirac can do.
Yeah, kind of surprised about this, but Trinnov has so much manual control I'm sure you could use MSO and just punch the filters and delay in.
 

ernestcarl

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believe Trinnov's 3D mic, in addition to showing precise spatial locations of all speakers, can also separately measure speaker direct and first reflection sound and show them to you separately. That's quite useful because while you can sorta do this with REW and windowing, it takes some trial and error and guesswork.

The windowing it uses in the options menu that I’ve seen seem to apply a default of 3 cycles? I cannot remember exactly… *actually, they provide two views (direct sound & the more usual steady state curves we are used to) In REW that’s kind of extreme and something I would only use very occasionally. However, I am assuming their psychoacoustic filtering algorithm must be superior to that of REW in combination with the special type of microphone they provide.
 
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DonH56

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So I guess why is having more filters and adjustability not replicable? Like none of that feels like anything that would be out of reach for APO or other PC software except for the licensed codecs.
Maybe not out of reach for PC programs, but you asked in your opening post how it compared to Audyssey and Dirac Live, which are commercial solutions. Even with a PC or DSP solution like miniDSP you still need the proper algorithms and such to get a good result. If you want to do it yourself, I suggest picking up Mitch Barnett's book Accurate Sound Reproduction Using DSP and Acourate SW.

Somehow I completely forgot the 3D resolution you get from Trinnov's special four-element microphone that provides spatial location and not just distance, another big plus as cited by all the other posters above.
 

EB1000

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I know that Dirac are working on a revolutionary improved spatial-based algorithms:


Insiders claim that the new version will be even better that Trinnov and Lyngdorf solutions. The idea is to use all existing speakers to correct response of each speaker by extracting different frequency components from one speaker and generating them with proper levels and phase corrections from other speakers for compensation.

For example, if one speaker has a null at 90Hz due to room modes, the processor inside the AVR will output the 90Hz portion from all or some of the other channels at different timings to compensate for the null. This would bring RC to a next level optimized for object-oriented technologies.

They originally planed to announce the new tech in CES2022 but then decided to wait another year with the official announcement.
 

Golfx

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Maybe not out of reach for PC programs, but you asked in your opening post how it compared to Audyssey and Dirac Live, which are commercial solutions. Even with a PC or DSP solution like miniDSP you still need the proper algorithms and such to get a good result. If you want to do it yourself, I suggest picking up Mitch Barnett's book Accurate Sound Reproduction Using DSP and Acourate SW.

Somehow I completely forgot the 3D resolution you get from Trinnov's special four-element microphone that provides spatial location and not just distance, another big plus as cited by all the other posters above.
Well said. A tipping point for me was when I discovered other brands of AVR/AVPs down sample hi-res music to 48hz when using their versions of room correction software. They simply do not have enough processing power to do both hi-res and room correction simultaneously. Whereas Trinnov does not down sample. The Altitude 16 keeps 96hz and the Altitude 32 keeps 192hz.

Monument, CO. I was raised nearby. Winter storms were always stronger at Monument compared to 5 miles on either side. Always found that amazing.
 

Beast76

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I know that Dirac are working on a revolutionary improved spatial-based algorithms:


Insiders claim that the new version will be even better that Trinnov and Lyngdorf solutions. The idea is to use all existing speakers to correct response of each speaker by extracting different frequency components from one speaker and generating them with proper levels and phase corrections from other speakers for compensation.

For example, if one speaker has a null at 90Hz due to room modes, the processor inside the AVR will output the 90Hz portion from all or some of the other channels at different timings to compensate for the null. This would bring RC to a next level optimized for object-oriented technologies.

They originally planed to announce the new tech in CES2022 but then decided to wait another year with the official announcement.
The beauty of claims :) Trinnov exists and the Dirac version that blows Trinnov away does not. I hope it comes to fruition - but we’ll see.
 
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tknx

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I probably should have made it Trinnov vs manually doing it with a computer.

I suspect Dirac will go that way for some sort of Dirac Pro since Onkyo will have pedestrian Dirac. Which will be a shame if it is $15K+ just to get in the game.

Anyway it really sounds like it is (1) how far down the chain of manual trial and error each algorithm will go (e. g. How many steps that someone would do manually or how many cuts they will make) and (2) how they approach correction of those errors. Or maybe the depth of solution but not the breadth?
 

abdo123

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I know that Dirac are working on a revolutionary improved spatial-based algorithms:


Insiders claim that the new version will be even better that Trinnov and Lyngdorf solutions. The idea is to use all existing speakers to correct response of each speaker by extracting different frequency components from one speaker and generating them with proper levels and phase corrections from other speakers for compensation.

For example, if one speaker has a null at 90Hz due to room modes, the processor inside the AVR will output the 90Hz portion from all or some of the other channels at different timings to compensate for the null. This would bring RC to a next level optimized for object-oriented technologies.

They originally planed to announce the new tech in CES2022 but then decided to wait another year with the official announcement.
I'm really excited for this. been following it for a while.
 

DonH56

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Well said. A tipping point for me was when I discovered other brands of AVR/AVPs down sample hi-res music to 48hz when using their versions of room correction software. They simply do not have enough processing power to do both hi-res and room correction simultaneously. Whereas Trinnov does not down sample. The Altitude 16 keeps 96hz and the Altitude 32 keeps 192hz.

Monument, CO. I was raised nearby. Winter storms were always stronger at Monument compared to 5 miles on either side. Always found that amazing.
Yes, maintaining full sample rate is another plus, though I am not sure the audible benefits of say 96 kS/s vs. 48 kS/s.

Upgradability is another plus: Trinnov supports SW and HW upgrades from their very first units so you can stay current with the latest and greatest codecs. I blew about as much money on my last three AVR/AVP units as for one Trinnov that will last me much longer. And Trinnov's customer service is pretty amazing; they roll out fixes very quickly if there is a bug found and are very responsive (way better than other AVRs/AVPs I have owned). They also have some very cool features and displays that are not essential but very nice to have. As a complete package it offers much more than anything else I have seen.

Our house sits at about 7500', Monument is around 7000', on a big ridge. Denver is about 2000' lower at around 5000' and Colorado Springs about 1500' lower (6000') so the altitude and terrain make a huge difference. Snowing today, as a matter of fact, with a predicted high of 19 degF and single-digit lows the next few nights. It was in the 50's and 60's last week so our poor lilac tree started budding out and now will get frozen out. We get blooms about every third or fourth year. :( March is our snowiest month.
 

sarumbear

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I probably should have made it Trinnov vs manually doing it with a computer.
You cannot access modern surround decoders privately. Otherwise, Trinnov is a computer.
 

DonH56

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I probably should have made it Trinnov vs manually doing it with a computer.

I suspect Dirac will go that way for some sort of Dirac Pro since Onkyo will have pedestrian Dirac. Which will be a shame if it is $15K+ just to get in the game.

Anyway it really sounds like it is (1) how far down the chain of manual trial and error each algorithm will go (e. g. How many steps that someone would do manually or how many cuts they will make) and (2) how they approach correction of those errors. Or maybe the depth of solution but not the breadth?
First, technically Trinnov is a computer, the basic HW is a PC with pro audio and video cards in the box and running their proprietary OS.

I do not understand, manually doing what? If all you want is room correction and/or speaker compensation, then there are many ways to do that. The Trinnov is an AVP that provides switching, processing of numerous codecs, bass management, and a range of things well beyond room correction. If you do not need a full-fledged AVR/AVP then you should be comparing SW or dedicated HW platforms and not an AVP to a "simple" DSP for filters. There is no point in paying for all of the I/O and codecs if you do not need or want them. It seems like you are comparing a single-purpose solution (SW) to a full-featured general-purpose solution (AVR/AVP).

I think you are comparing apples and fruit salad.
 

phoenixdogfan

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The beauty of claims :) Trinnov exists and the Dirac version that blows Trinnov away does not. I hope it comes to fruition - but we’ll see.
And will it only be available on AV Receivers or will it be available on work stations and PC's.
 

DonH56

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And will it only be available on AV Receivers or will it be available on work stations and PC's.
Dirac Live historically releases for PCs and supports Mac and Windows. But, last time I looked (probably a year or more ago), DLBC and Unison was not available, and the stand-alone version only handled 8 channels so you needed some sort of DAW host. Trinnov handles up to 64 channels last I checked. I don't imagine I will ever need that many, but I do have 15 in use now in a fairly small media room (seven base, four subs, four overheads). Hopefully they'll expand the channel count and roll in the fancier bass control scheme if they haven't already. The multichannel SW package was about $500 last time I looked, with a cheaper stereo version. When I moved away from my Dirac Live processor, I stopped following them closely, so my info is likely well out of date.

I did much prefer the flexibility of Dirac Live compared to Audyssey, YPAO, or MCACC, though the end result I achieved with Dirac Live and tweaked MCACC was comparable. It was better than the older Audyssey versions I had on hand, though at that time Audyssey did not have much in the way of user adjustments (I understand that has significantly improved now).
 

sarumbear

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The multichannel SW package was about $500 last time I looked, with a cheaper stereo version.
What will be your multi-channel source?
 
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