Audeze owners after 3 weeks.
looking at other measurements of the two versions, it becomes clear that Amir measured the updated 2021 version.Is this the 2020 or the pre-2021 version ersion ?
they have different FR. And if I’am not mistaken, the built-in profile is for the pre-2021 version. maybe @amirm can post the measurement post eq for his profile against the built-in one in order to verify this.
Amir does not measure HP linearity--i.e. whether the FR keeps the same "shape" at different levels or not. Is it because 99.9% of the headphones are "linear" and that measurement would be mostly useless?The dB levels that Amir is quoting is at 425Hz, but that doesn't invalidate my prior post I wrote to you - that still all stands. You just have to imagine adding 20dB (the difference between 114dB-94dB distortion graphs) to the following frequency response graph to imagine where the bass would be with a +20dB bass boost (it would be at 112dB at 20Hz to name one point):
But it should be specified in the OP.looking at other measurements of the two versions, it becomes clear that Amir measured the updated 2021 version.
The original one had a distinct M-shaped error curve relative to OE2018:
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The new version looks more like this:
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Which matches pretty well with Amir's measurements:
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Ive been trying to google the version history of the XC- I dont even know which mine is! (second hand ebay). Something of a black hole.But it should be specified in the OP.
Next year they'll push a new silent revision...
It's ok, you don't understand the graphs. I'll do my best to illustrate how you work out what frequency response you could have in this headphone in the bass with a +20dB bass boost and this will indeed equate to the distortion (in the bass) that is seen in the 114dB distortion graph. See the red line I drew in on the following graph, that's what the frequency response could look like if you were to give this headphone a +20dB bass boost - I think that's enough bass right!!!If this is 114db at 425hz, there is only an amount of bass equal to that which a more harman-correct headphone would have at somewhere around 94db to 100db.
And there isn't any method to deduce from this graph how much bass distortion this headphone would have if its bass were increased to the level of a more Harman-correct headphone.
Compression can happen in headphones at higher volumes, but I think it's generally not a big factor, for instance following is what was measured for the HD560s I sent to Oratory:Amir does not measure HP linearity--i.e. whether the FR keeps the same "shape" at different levels or not. Is it because 99.9% of the headphones are "linear" and that measurement would be mostly useless?
I am not questioning the above answer at all, but I also wonder about this type of EQ projection for those heaphones where the manufacturers claim they played with "resonances" to tune the FR response: wouldn't this be an indicator of potential non-linearities?
In the case of the LCD-XC and Audeze headphones in general, can one assume that low distortion and clean group delay are good indicators of an absence of weird resonances or non-linear behaviors?
I have a pair of Ultrasone headphones, and the bass is just about "right" down to the deepest notes and test tones. In fact if anything I feel it may be slightly TOO much deep bass.
Why do I get the feeling that just about every headphone tested seems to not fit the harman deep bass portion of the curve, yet, I do not get the feeling in real use, that most decent phones are lacking in deep bass??
Maybe I need to send mine in?
It's not plain wrong to stick a +8dB Low Shelf on a headphone, far from it, what matters is the resultant frequency response as long as distortion is under control. There's nothing magical about a headphone like the Stealth that does Harman bass without EQ vs a headphone that requires +8dB Low Shelf to get there, as long as distortion variable is kept in check......it's the same thing, it's not hoodoo voodoo.Do that. I for one reduce bass on any 'phones or IEM that get anywhere near Harman levels- maybe more from what I'm used to than objective "preference".
Its one of the reasons I want to hear the Stealth as I believe it might be Harman bass done right, whereas sticking an 8dB low shelf on something like the HD800 is just plain wrong! BE interesting so see how the Ultrasone comes out.
Apropos of nothing...Im picturing Amir's listening test
That and the fact that the data my not be completely reliable. I for example don't know how the microphone compresses at extreme levels. And that the shape of linearity is impossible to interpret. When I first started I did a lot of linearity tests and results were just not useful.Amir does not measure HP linearity--i.e. whether the FR keeps the same "shape" at different levels or not. Is it because 99.9% of the headphones are "linear" and that measurement would be mostly useless?
Lax lingo on my part. To my ears sticking that much bass on the HD800 is wrong. It ruins them for me.It's not plain wrong to stick a +8dB Low Shelf on a headphone, far from it, what matters is the resultant frequency response as long as distortion is under control. There's nothing magical about a headphone like the Stealth that does Harman bass without EQ vs a headphone that requires +8dB Low Shelf to get there, as long as distortion variable is kept in check......it's the same thing, it's not hoodoo voodoo.
It is of course possible that people have different experiences with headphones due to different levels of bass seal that is created when they wear them - different anatomies, so could be a lot of what people think they like in a headphone frequency response is skewed by not getting a good seal, but that's probably not relevant in your own particular case as you don't like Harman Bass (too much bass for you), unless you're basing that on planar headphones that can give a bass boost in some parts of the bass when not sealing perfectly (whilst sacrificing the low subbass at the same time).
Compression also shows up as distortion in the measurements, so you can infer the former from the latter. (And this means if it's claimed the measurement mic compresses at extreme levels, its distortion measurements at those levels would be inaccurate too.) As Oratory said in his message to you about his measurements of your HD560S:Compression can happen in headphones at higher volumes, but I think it's generally not a big factor, for instance following is what was measured for the HD560s I sent to Oratory:View attachment 188308View attachment 188307View attachment 188306
I suppose some headphones might show more compression than others, and I suppose in those headphones then if you were to give a +20dB bass boost then you would get less of that 20dB addition, maybe you'd only end up with +18dB if you measured it or something. I don't think it's a big effect though, it's more important to note the distortion at different SPL's because then you wouldn't boost it too much anyway if distortion was getting crazy and you listen at loud listening levels (you'd hear it).......if you only listen at low to moderate levels then most headphones can take gobs of bass boost even if they don't measure particularly well in distortion on this site. So for example the LCD headphone being reviewed in this thread (the LCD-XC) shows low distortion at the highest SPL (114dB) in the bass, so really there is zero concerns with this headphone re bass boosting EQ.
You'll notice that for very low frequencies, the measured frequency response starts to become slightly different at very high signal levels, that's because the driver can't reach the full excursion anymore and starts saturating/distorting. Remember though that this only happens at very high signal levels. Not a big problem.
The power compression necessarily causes harmonic distortion (because the characteristic curve is nonlinear). So if we look at THD at different voltage levels, we see that for very high levels (equivalent to 113 dB at 1 kHz) we see 5% THD at 20 Hz.
And the bass distortion you would see from the above +20dB bass boost would be the green line in the following graph
This graph shows the LCD-XC's distortion across the entire frequency range including bass at 94, 104, and 114dB SPL:
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