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Torn: Focal Elegia vs. Dan Clark Audio Aeon Closed X/RT

Shadez

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so is it worth me waiting to end March as in UK and that's assuming next batch isn't delayed or would RT be just as a good a bet?
 

gauc93

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I can't be of much help, but I recently had the same dilemma between Focal Radiance or Elegia, DCA Aeon 2 Noire, Audeze LCD2C.

Maybe you want to consider the Radiance too?

I went for the DCA Aeon 2 Noire based on hours of research and reading from ASR, SBAF, HeadFi, YouTube, Reddit, tons of "trustworthy" headphones sites reviews and whatever other forum I could find from around the globe. Different audiences and some even a bit toxic. I also contacted a headphone dealership (best in country) and asked for advice as I'm sourcing from them.

So for me it comes down to your use and personal preferences.

It's more of a Planar vs DD, about quality and portability. Then about the sound signature you prefer.

Is it for travel? Aeons.
Is it for the office? Aeons or maybe Focal depending on office arrangements and noise.
Drive-ability? Focals.
"Macrodynamics" and the slam feel? Focals
Build quality? Aeons
Customer service? Aeons
Looks? Debatable, the Radiance are gorgeous.
Comfort: tie? They're both very comfortable.

I'd have gone 100% for the Radiance if it didn't leak noise and and it were somehow more compact for transporting them. Also while the headphones are beautiful I find the Bentley logo tacky.

The crowd is a bit split between these two (Aeon 2 Closed/X and Elegia), seems to be like comparing apples to oranges, iOS to Android, etc.

Now if you would consider the Aeon 2 Noire, which as to my understanding has very slight changes compared to the Aeon 2 Closed/X, the Noire is the favorite across-the-boards. Seems it isn't as "dry" as before and with some EQ relieves the problem mainly in the lack of punch/slam.

Personally some EQ has always fixed the lack of slam/punch on planars and electrostatic to me. I hear people constantly talking bad about Stax lack of bass and rumble. I'm using the cheapo the L300 with L700 pads on the tiniest Stax amp (252S). While I can't go crazy loud or go nuts with the EQ on the low end but let me tell you the sound IS majestic with the right EQ. The bass can be VERY satisfying with the right EQ and you might even feel a tingling rumble in your ears. I consider myself a bit of a basshead. I have the Stax with +12dB @ 59 Hz, so there's that.
But as always, it's hard to beat DD in that department.
 
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Shadez

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I can't be of much help, but I recently had the same dilemma between Focal Radiance or Elegia, DCA Aeon 2 Noire, Audeze LCD2C.

Maybe you want to consider the Radiance too?

I went for the DCA Aeon 2 Noire based on hours of research and reading from ASR, SBAF, HeadFi, YouTube, Reddit, tons of "trustworthy" headphones sites reviews and whatever other forum I could find from around the globe. Different audiences and some even a bit toxic. I also contacted a headphone dealership (best in country) and asked for advice as I'm sourcing from them.

So for me it comes down to your use and personal preferences.

It's more of a Planar vs DD, about quality and portability. Then about the sound signature you prefer.

Is it for travel? Aeons.
Is it for the office? Aeons or maybe Focal depending on office arrangements and noise.
Drive-ability? Focals.
"Macrodynamics" and the slam feel? Focals
Build quality? Aeons
Customer service? Aeons
Looks? Debatable, the Radiance are gorgeous.
Comfort: tie? They're both very comfortable.

I'd have gone 100% for the Radiance if it didn't leak noise and and it were somehow more compact for transporting them. Also while the headphones are beautiful I find the Bentley logo tacky.

The crowd is a bit split between these two (Aeon 2 Closed/X and Elegia), seems to be like comparing apples to oranges, iOS to Android, etc.

Now if you would consider the Aeon 2 Noire, which as to my understanding has very slight changes compared to the Aeon 2 Closed/X, the Noire is the favorite across-the-boards. Seems it isn't as "dry" as before and with some EQ relieves the problem mainly in the lack of punch/slam.

Personally some EQ has always fixed the lack of slam/punch on planars and electrostatic to me. I hear people constantly talking bad about Stax lack of bass and rumble. I'm using the cheapo the L300 with L700 pads on the tiniest Stax amp (252S). While I can't go crazy loud or go nuts with the EQ on the low end but let me tell you the sound IS majestic with the right EQ. The bass can be VERY satisfying with the right EQ and you might even feel a tingling rumble in your ears. I consider myself a bit of a basshead. I have the Stax with +12dB @ 59 Hz, so there's that.
But as always, it's hard to beat DD in that department.
what I am after is a headphone to use with minimal sound leakage, mainly around my house wn listening to any of my open backs isn't possible due to genre, time od the day etc. I like low bass and subbass but quality is as important as quantity and appropriate in terms of quantity as well. I don't suffer at all from trebble sensitivity, often I may be using these while not critical listening although I often late in evenings may get the chance to kick back and chill out to my music. Speaking of music I have broad musical tastes and it really depends on my mood or is flicking though or listening to discovery selections I may shoot off on a tangent I didn't intend to at first. The music I listen to by far their least is chamber and classical music. I am quite new into this search and have a small number of headphones so far, some plannar and some DD. I like natural soundstage and positioning, musical but not overly romantic tonality
 

Firefly00

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what I am after is a headphone to use with minimal sound leakage, mainly around my house wn listening to any of my open backs isn't possible due to genre, time od the day etc. I like low bass and subbass but quality is as important as quantity and appropriate in terms of quantity as well. I don't suffer at all from trebble sensitivity, often I may be using these while not critical listening although I often late in evenings may get the chance to kick back and chill out to my music. Speaking of music I have broad musical tastes and it really depends on my mood or is flicking though or listening to discovery selections I may shoot off on a tangent I didn't intend to at first. The music I listen to by far their least is chamber and classical music. I am quite new into this search and have a small number of headphones so far, some plannar and some DD. I like natural soundstage and positioning, musical but not overly romantic tonality
Sounds like the Aeon series headphones are for you then. They don’t leak much at all, and have great bass extension and detail. Soundstage is quite nice on the RT, but the Aeon 2 and Aeon Noire supposedly do it better
 

Monstieur

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I love my Aeon 2 Closed with the perforated pads for extra bass. It requires a bass shelf to meet the Harman target. You can hear the bass all the way down to 10 or 20 Hz, but it doesn't have the sub-bass slam of even an open back LCD. Ultimately I had to buy an LCD-XC and EQ it to fix it's flaws, but it has greater sub-bass slam which is the most important factor for me.

I would suggest looking at the Aeon 2 Noire as it's tuned to the Harman target out of the box and should have better sub-bass without EQ.
 
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Monstieur

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Here he talks about the sub-bass slam of the Aeon 2 Noire.
 

Shadez

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Congrats! I have both, and I think they're both fine headphones.

My HiBy R5 Saber works well with the Closed X in single ended mode even with a little bass boost. My guess is the Hip DAC would have been fine.
Agree the hipdac in balanced output is slightly more powerful in terms of wattage and voltage than ifi‘s standard zen dac.

i need some closed backs for round house when others about so I went for a pair of 1more triple drivers at a very good time limited deal on Amazon UK plus 20% of due to a slight imperfection in the right ear pad that I fixed with leather glue, so £73 instead of between £150-210. But now I want a closed back for more reference like listening rather than background. I am looking at both of these and I think I will go for the closed X, they keep getting called DRY by reviewers and I have to admit as only 13 months into this hobby I don’t have experience of what that actually means. I am not longer a muddied bass head but I love bass in quality and sub bass, sound stage as long as not claustrophobic is something I don’t obses over, I’d rather accuracy of placement and separation be the focus. I have the hd6xx which don’t blow me away but I enjoy them, I have the Sundaras 2020 which are like my soul mates and the Deva Pro as another around the house closed back. Couple of others as well, I think the controlled detailed presentation will suit me, I do not like overly warm timbers so some ifi products I find too warm for instance, if I could afford it I would get both, maybe I should just get the drop closed x and then order the focals from Amazon and return the ones I prefer or maybe I will sell a kidney and try to keep both. My concern is having many mid fi headphones and never being able to afford the higher end headphone which may blow my mind, although not like 10K, even if win the lottery I’d rather get a great hi end pair and give the rest to charity
 
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Shadez

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Agree the hipdac in balanced output is slightly more powerful in terms of wattage and voltage than ifi‘s standard zen dac.

i need some closed backs for round house when others about so I went for a pair of 1more triple drivers at a very good time limited deal on Amazon UK plus 20% of due to a slight imperfection in the right ear pad that I fixed with leather glue, so £73 instead of between £150-210. But now I want a closed back for more reference like listening rather than background. I am looking at both of these and I think I will go for the closed X, they keep getting called DRY by reviewers and I have to admit as only 13 months into this hobby I don’t have experience of what that actually means. I am not longer a muddied bass head but I love bass in quality and sub bass, sound stage as long as not claustrophobic is something I don’t obses over, I’d rather accuracy of placement and separation be the focus. I have the hd6xx which don’t blow me away but I enjoy them, I have the Sundaras 2020 which are like my soul mates and the Deva Pro as another around the house closed back. Couple of others as well, I think the controlled detailed presentation will suit me, I do not like overly warm timbers so some ifi products I find too warm for instance, if I could afford it I would get both, maybe I should just get the drop closed x and then order the focals from Amazon and return the ones I prefer or maybe I will sell a kidney and try to keep both. My concern is having many mid fi headphones and never being able to afford the higher end headphone which may blow my mind.
 

gofishus

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I love my Aeon 2 Closed with the perforated pads for extra bass. It requires a bass shelf to meet the Harman target. You can hear the bass all the way down to 10 or 20 Hz, but it doesn't have the sub-bass slam of even an open back LCD. Ultimately I had to buy an LCD-XC and EQ it to fix it's flaws, but it has greater sub-bass slam which is the most important factor for me.

I would suggest looking at the Aeon 2 Noire as it's tuned to the Harman target out of the box and should have better sub-bass without EQ.

I think we have to keep in mind the Harman target is not necessarily what all audiophiles want. In fact it's not a balanced or reference target at all. Harman response merely means the frequency response that the majority of people prefer. That's not the same thing as the most accurate response though. Harman target is very close to a u shaped curve which means the bass and treble is over-emphasized. That's the problem when I see Amir's reviews and a lot of people on here using the Harman target as the end all be all, and saying that a headphone sucks and needs to be EQ'd to meet that target etc that's not the point of alot of these headphones ie. Sennhesier HD800 is a very respected audiophile headphone but it doesn't try to meet any kind of 'Harman' target. Just because a headphone doesn't meet this target doesn't mean it needs to be 'fixed' to meet it.

As for the discussion, I'm also deciding between the Elegia's ($400 at Adorama) and the Aeon X Closed ($400 at Drop). I'm leaning towards the Elegia's because I have had experience with the Aeon X Open before but found the bass lacking (the midrange and highs are nice though) and it sits a little too loose on my head making it a bit uncomfortable to wear for long periods. On the other hand I've owned the Focal Elex's and loved how balanced sounding they were and how comfortable they were. But yeah, deciding between these two.

https://headphones.com/blogs/reviews/focal-elegia-closed-back-dynamic-headphone-review Looks like the Elegia is a pretty balanced presentation similar to the Elex - that sounds like a winner for me!
 
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Monstieur

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I think we have to keep in mind the Harman target is not necessarily what all audiophiles want. In fact it's not a balanced or reference target at all. Harman response merely means the frequency response that the majority of people prefer. That's not the same thing as the most accurate response though. Harman target is very close to a u shaped curve which means the bass and treble is over-emphasized. That's the problem when I see Amir's reviews and a lot of people on here using the Harman target as the end all be all, and saying that a headphone sucks and needs to be EQ'd to meet that target etc that's not the point of alot of these headphones ie. Sennhesier HD800 is a very respected audiophile headphone but it doesn't try to meet any kind of 'Harman' target. Just because a headphone doesn't meet this target doesn't mean it needs to be 'fixed' to meet it.

As for the discussion, I'm also deciding between the Elegia's ($400 at Adorama) and the Aeon X Closed ($400 at Drop). I'm leaning towards the Elegia's because I have had experience with the Aeon X Open before but found the bass lacking (the midrange and highs are nice though) and it sits a little too loose on my head making it a bit uncomfortable to wear for long periods. On the other hand I've owned the Focal Elears and Elex's and loved how balanced sounding they were and how comfortable they were. But yeah, deciding between these two.
I don't like the Harman target either. The treble is painful if I EQ a headphone to meet the Harman target. I like only the sub-bass shelf. The stock treble tuning of the Aeon is just the right amount.

Since you even mentioned sub-bass, I would skip the Aeon. The closed back doesn't make much of a difference to the sub-bass slam.
 

AVKS

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I think we have to keep in mind the Harman target is not necessarily what all audiophiles want. In fact it's not a balanced or reference target at all. Harman response merely means the frequency response that the majority of people prefer. That's not the same thing as the most accurate response though. Harman target is very close to a u shaped curve which means the bass and treble is over-emphasized. That's the problem when I see Amir's reviews and a lot of people on here using the Harman target as the end all be all, and saying that a headphone sucks and needs to be EQ'd to meet that target etc that's not the point of alot of these headphones ie. Sennhesier HD800 is a very respected audiophile headphone but it doesn't try to meet any kind of 'Harman' target. Just because a headphone doesn't meet this target doesn't mean it needs to be 'fixed' to meet it.

As for the discussion, I'm also deciding between the Elegia's ($400 at Adorama) and the Aeon X Closed ($400 at Drop). I'm leaning towards the Elegia's because I have had experience with the Aeon X Open before but found the bass lacking (the midrange and highs are nice though) and it sits a little too loose on my head making it a bit uncomfortable to wear for long periods. On the other hand I've owned the Focal Elears and Elex's and loved how balanced sounding they were and how comfortable they were. But yeah, deciding between these two.
I agree fully with your first paragraph, and the meaning of 'preference' is often lost in these discussions. Preference is not zero sum and does not mean that anything else is not enjoyable.

Keep in mind that the Aeon Closed and open are notably different beasts. Regarding the Aeon vs Elegia, I had the Elegias and Aeon RT at the same time. The Elegias had a bit more open, airy sound but after getting the Aeons the treble sounded quite brittle and thin to my ears and they can't touch the bass extension of the Aeons. Coupled with the construction issues (headbands breaking often enough to notice it) and it was an easy decision to seel the Elegias.
 

Keith_W

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I think we have to keep in mind the Harman target is not necessarily what all audiophiles want. In fact it's not a balanced or reference target at all. Harman response merely means the frequency response that the majority of people prefer. That's not the same thing as the most accurate response though. Harman target is very close to a u shaped curve which means the bass and treble is over-emphasized. That's the problem when I see Amir's reviews and a lot of people on here using the Harman target as the end all be all, and saying that a headphone sucks and needs to be EQ'd to meet that target etc that's not the point of alot of these headphones ie. Sennhesier HD800 is a very respected audiophile headphone but it doesn't try to meet any kind of 'Harman' target. Just because a headphone doesn't meet this target doesn't mean it needs to be 'fixed' to meet it.

Agree 100%, especially "that's not the same thing as the most accurate response". In Sean Olive's 2019 update, he noted three subgroups of listeners. Class 1, which comprised of two thirds of the test subjects, preferred headphones tuned to the Harman curve. Class 2, about 15% of listeners, preferred 4-6dB more bass, and were usually younger males with less listening experience. Class 3 comprised of 21% of the listeners who preferred 2dB less bass and were mostly women over the age of 50. Note that the experiment did not control for hearing loss.

Note that I am not arguing that we should forget about the Harman curve and go back to the Wild West when it comes to headphone design. As that paper says, frequency response is the single best indicator of sound quality, although it is not the only indicator. And then again, sound quality may not even be of the utmost consideration when selecting headphones - for example I have multiple headphones, selected for reasons other than sound quality. I have bone conduction headphones which strap to my goggles when I swim, for those I prioritized adequate volume and easy controls. I have noise cancelling earphones for travel, selected for how effectively they cancelled airplane noise. And then I have my headphones for critical listening, which I chose based on compliance to the Harman curve.

In this case there is a very good reason to go with the Focal Elegia's over the DCA Stealth (assuming you like the sound): it is way more sensitive. This means it will be much easier to drive, which means you could power it with your DAP if needed. You don't have to look for a high powered DAP or amplifier which I am finding an issue with my DCA Stealth.
 

gofishus

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Agree 100%, especially "that's not the same thing as the most accurate response". In Sean Olive's 2019 update, he noted three subgroups of listeners. Class 1, which comprised of two thirds of the test subjects, preferred headphones tuned to the Harman curve. Class 2, about 15% of listeners, preferred 4-6dB more bass, and were usually younger males with less listening experience. Class 3 comprised of 21% of the listeners who preferred 2dB less bass and were mostly women over the age of 50. Note that the experiment did not control for hearing loss.

Note that I am not arguing that we should forget about the Harman curve and go back to the Wild West when it comes to headphone design. As that paper says, frequency response is the single best indicator of sound quality, although it is not the only indicator. And then again, sound quality may not even be of the utmost consideration when selecting headphones - for example I have multiple headphones, selected for reasons other than sound quality. I have bone conduction headphones which strap to my goggles when I swim, for those I prioritized adequate volume and easy controls. I have noise cancelling earphones for travel, selected for how effectively they cancelled airplane noise. And then I have my headphones for critical listening, which I chose based on compliance to the Harman curve.

In this case there is a very good reason to go with the Focal Elegia's over the DCA Stealth (assuming you like the sound): it is way more sensitive. This means it will be much easier to drive, which means you could power it with your DAP if needed. You don't have to look for a high powered DAP or amplifier which I am finding an issue with my DCA Stealth.

Yeah, and frequency response tells us nothing about the actual detail retrieval/clarity or imaging/soundstage either which are also big factors in sound quality. What it tells us is the general signature of the headphone so I can look at a chart and see if there is a good chance I will like the headphone's tuning or not.
 

Peterinvan

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The Elegia and Meze 99 Classics may as well be headphones created in different galaxies. They're SO different.

The 99 Classics have what I like to call a very refined consumer sound signature. Warm, thick bass that bleeds into the mids without killing them, but it still blooms and booms. Average treble with a slight roll-off that's easy to listen to for hours. Surprising soundstage for a closed back. Fun, but nowhere near analytical or true to the recording.

The Elegia's, on the other ear (not hand -- this is an audio forum, after all!), have decent, underrated bass. Anyone who calls this can thin or bass light probably either is used to the booming, bloomy bass of V-shaped consumer sound signatures or really loves their audiophile bass. The Elegia's have decent punch in the bass and will give you the bass that was recorded in the studio or played live.

Mids are the star of the show with the Elegia. Fantastic detail for vocals, string instruments, as advertised. But I also read many reviewers and Elegia owners say these cans aren't good for rock guitar. I disagree! These may not be good for hard rock and metal, but I find them delectable for guitars in classic rock, alt-country and Americana.

Treble on the Elegia is very detailed, like the other frequencies. These things resolve really well. The treble is very much there, but so far it's not stabbing me in the ear canals with an ice pick like some Beyers. It rolls off slightly just at the right spot for me. The treble also isn't grainy.

One thing I really noticed that elevates the Elegia over less-expensive cans is the conformity and structure of the sound. At no time so far during my very early testing have I heard the sound collapse into a wall of mush in complex or busy passages. It's really nice.

Early days with Elegia. But so far, so good. I'm not blown away and probably would be questioning the purchase if I paid the full retail of $900. They're good. But are they THAT much better than my HiFiMan HE-400se? No. But at $400 at Adorama, the Elegia feel like a steal.

The 99 Classics are nice headphones for those who want an audiophile version of a consumer-oriented, bassy sound signature, but without hollowed-out mids. The mids are muddied by the bass, though. But it's easily discernable that the Elegia are at the next level of sonic quality.

More impressions to come. Thanks.
When you review the Elegias, you have to specify which pads you are using.

I have enjoyed my Elegias since 2019. I have the stock pads, and three pads from Dekoni. It’s like four different headphones.
Since I got the Stellia “Limited” pads from Dekoni, I no longer have a need to swap pads. IMHO these are the pads Focal should have issued with the Elegias from the beginning. Happy :)
 

Zoide

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ADI-2 DAC. Elegias are not bad at all, but Aeons are better to my taste. I also like Stax L300 and HD600 sound, with eq of course. Genelecs with loudspeakers, i.e. quite neutral sound.

I went for the DCA Aeon 2 Noire based on hours of research and reading from ASR, SBAF, HeadFi, YouTube, Reddit, tons of "trustworthy" headphones sites reviews and whatever other forum I could find from around the globe. Different audiences and some even a bit toxic. I also contacted a headphone dealership (best in country) and asked for advice as I'm sourcing from them.

I'm using the cheapo the L300 with L700 pads on the tiniest Stax amp (252S). While I can't go crazy loud or go nuts with the EQ on the low end but let me tell you the sound IS majestic with the right EQ. The bass can be VERY satisfying with the right EQ and you might even feel a tingling rumble in your ears. I consider myself a bit of a basshead. I have the Stax with +12dB @ 59 Hz, so there's that.
But as always, it's hard to beat DD in that department.

How does your DCA Aeon 2 Noire compare to your Stax? I have the L700 and have been tempted to get the DCAs.

Thanks
 
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