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Dolby Atmos Music

luft262

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I'm a little confused about Dolby Atmos Music, which is available on Amazon Music.

My first question involves getting it to work. When I play music using headphones and the Amazon Music App and a Dolby Atmos Music track plays the icon in the app will indicate that dolby is playing. I can confirm this by switching back and forth from this and stereo and I can hear that the music sounds different. (not necessarily better, but different)

If I try to play the same tracks on my 5.1 home theater using my Denon AVR I can play the music in dolby, but it is being upconverted by the AVR. I can tell, because whether or not I'm using a laptop plugged in to HDMI or the HEOS app the icon will ready Ultra HD Music and not Dolby Atmos Music. I can also see by pressing the info button on the AVR remote that it is receiving a stereo signal and then outputting either stereo or dolby upconverted depending on which I have selected on the AVR.

In all honesty I'm not super excited about Dolby Atmos Music I just wanted to hear music recorded in more than 2 channels, since they claim it is available and I have a multi-channel system with L/R/C + dual subs + in-ceiling surrounds. So I would think I would be able to try this service/product out.

Due to this I have a few questions.

1. Have others experienced not being able to play Dolby Atmos Music on an AVR? Specifically I have the Denon X3700H.

2. How is dolby atmos music possible on headphones when they only have two channels? Wouldn't Dolby Atmos Music by definition require more than two channels?

3. If Dolby Atmos Music is only available on select devices, such as the amazon kindle speaker etc. what the hell is the point of it? Those speakers aren't even real surround sound let alone good speakers? Wouldn't Dolby want people with an actual sound system to experience it?

Thank you for your input.
 

Vince2

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Ok, I have been on a similar quest a while back. I was trying to get Atmos from the tidal app and tried many different ways. Discovered that only a few devices are capable of delivering Atmos. Fire stick max, apple tv and Nvidia shield were the only ones that seemed to work. Connecting to the HDMI input of the x3700h will give you the Atmos music experience. Be prepared to be disappointed. I listened to dozen different albums hoping to be impressed and lost interest. Maybe someone else can recommend a good album to demonstrate the potential.
 

JonK99

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I just started listening to Atmos music after switching from Spotify to Apple Music. I play it through my Apple TV to Denon X3700H and it works great. Apple has a number of playlists in different genres that feature Atmos tracks so that was my starting place to explore. Results seem very uneven but some are pretty good. A few that stand out so far: George Harrison / All Things Must Pass. Beatles / Abbey Road. Fleetwood Mac / Rumours. Rush / Moving Pictures. Norah Jones / Come Away With Me. A number of good jazz albums also (e.g. Eric Dolphy / Out To Lunch) but I have found with jazz it's much harder to put your finger on just what the Atmos value add is (as compared to just running the stereo version through an upmixer).
 
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I just started listening to Atmos music after switching from Spotify to Apple Music. I play it through my Apple TV to Denon X3700H and it works great. Apple has a number of playlists in different genres that feature Atmos tracks so that was my starting place to explore. Results seem very uneven but some are pretty good. A few that stand out so far: George Harrison / All Things Must Pass. Beatles / Abbey Road. Fleetwood Mac / Rumours. Rush / Moving Pictures. Norah Jones / Come Away With Me. A number of good jazz albums also (e.g. Eric Dolphy / Out To Lunch) but I have found with jazz it's much harder to put your finger on just what the Atmos value add is (as compared to just running the stereo version through an upmixer).
But do you find the Atmos rendition of these "stand outs" any better than the straight 5.1/7.1 renditions? I don't have my system fully dialed in yet, but so far it seems the Atmos adds very little to the experience for me. In the case of the Rush and the Fleetwood Mac, the 5.1 Bluerays/DVD-As even sound better.
 

JonK99

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But do you find the Atmos rendition of these "stand outs" any better than the straight 5.1/7.1 renditions? I don't have my system fully dialed in yet, but so far it seems the Atmos adds very little to the experience for me. In the case of the Rush and the Fleetwood Mac, the 5.1 Bluerays/DVD-As even sound better.

No, I have not done any direct comparison with native multitrack recordings. My collection of multitrack audio discs is fairly small -- I think Queen Night At The Opera might be the only overlap I have with the Atmos catalog. I suspect you're right -- assuming the Atmos mix came from the same multitrack source then there may not be much added if anything compared to native 5.1/7.1 + upmixer for the height/ceiling speakers.

For newly released music I suspect we will see more material mastered direct to Atmos and it will never come out on multitrack disc which is a tiny and shrinking market. For example apparently Billie Eilish is recording all her songs in Atmos now.
 
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luft262

luft262

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I just started listening to Atmos music after switching from Spotify to Apple Music. I play it through my Apple TV to Denon X3700H and it works great. Apple has a number of playlists in different genres that feature Atmos tracks so that was my starting place to explore. Results seem very uneven but some are pretty good. A few that stand out so far: George Harrison / All Things Must Pass. Beatles / Abbey Road. Fleetwood Mac / Rumours. Rush / Moving Pictures. Norah Jones / Come Away With Me. A number of good jazz albums also (e.g. Eric Dolphy / Out To Lunch) but I have found with jazz it's much harder to put your finger on just what the Atmos value add is (as compared to just running the stereo version through an upmixer).
How are you sure it's playing in native Dolby Atmos and not just upconverting a stereo signal? In you hit the info button on the Denon remote does it show a muti-channel input and output? Does a person have to have Apple TV or could you subscribe to AppleMusic and use the web player from a PC? It's my understanding that Atmos is lossless (when playing 4K Blu-rays etc.), but it was also my understanding that Apple Music did not offer lossless music or even CD quality music. Does that mean their Atmos tracks are an exception and are indeed lossless or are they both multi-channel and lossy? When you play Atmos music on Apple Music how many channels are the incoming tracks? I know Atmos can handle a ton of channels, does the incoming music simply match the number of channels you have or is each song different? Thanks for your help.
 

JonK99

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Apple has lossless ... BUT only when played directly from AppleTV -> HDMI -> AVR. iPhone -> Airplay -> AVR is lossy.
 

JonK99

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How are you sure it's playing in native Dolby Atmos and not just upconverting a stereo signal? In you hit the info button on the Denon remote does it show a muti-channel input and output? Does a person have to have Apple TV or could you subscribe to AppleMusic and use the web player from a PC? It's my understanding that Atmos is lossless (when playing 4K Blu-rays etc.), but it was also my understanding that Apple Music did not offer lossless music or even CD quality music. Does that mean their Atmos tracks are an exception and are indeed lossless or are they both multi-channel and lossy? When you play Atmos music on Apple Music how many channels are the incoming tracks? I know Atmos can handle a ton of channels, does the incoming music simply match the number of channels you have or is each song different? Thanks for your help.

Yes, Denon AVR shows Atmos as the music source. I have 5.1.4 and it shows all speakers in use. My understanding is that Atmos will always use all of your speakers, it does not vary by source. How it uses those speakers (e.g. for noticeable height effects) varies by source.
 

Vince2

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The best experience right now is and Apple TV 4K running apple music -> HDMI -> AVR

I’m not aware of any other method to get true Atmos mixes to an AVR.
As I stated earlier, firestick max will play atmos through tidal. Have not tried the other services on fire stick but expect them to work with atmos also. Caveat: fire stick goes in sleep mode after 20 min and an internal setting needs to be changed to remove the limit. If you have an oled screen connected there is a risk of screen burn in with extended play of non-moving display.
 

EdTice

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Yes, Denon AVR shows Atmos as the music source. I have 5.1.4 and it shows all speakers in use. My understanding is that Atmos will always use all of your speakers, it does not vary by source. How it uses those speakers (e.g. for noticeable height effects) varies by source.
If you have the app for iPhone, it will show you details about the input source including channels. This might be possible with the on-screen menus as well. But the app is more convenient
 
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luft262

luft262

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Apple has lossless ... BUT only when played directly from AppleTV -> HDMI -> AVR. iPhone -> Airplay -> AVR is lossy.
I see. Do you feel like dolby music would be worth it for a non-apple user to get an apple tv device and an apple music subscription over say Qobuz or another lossless stereo streaming service?
 

JonK99

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I see. Do you feel like dolby music would be worth it for a non-apple user to get an apple tv device and an apple music subscription over say Qobuz or another lossless stereo streaming service?
Hard to say. I'm not sure the relatively small Atmos catalog is compelling enough by itself to justify buying AppleTV just for streaming music.
 

ThatM1key

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1. Have others experienced not being able to play Dolby Atmos Music on an AVR? Specifically I have the Denon X3700H.

2. How is dolby atmos music possible on headphones when they only have two channels? Wouldn't Dolby Atmos Music by definition require more than two channels?

3. If Dolby Atmos Music is only available on select devices, such as the amazon kindle speaker etc. what the hell is the point of it? Those speakers aren't even real surround sound let alone good speakers? Wouldn't Dolby want people with an actual sound system to experience it?

Thank you for your input.

1. I never had problems with my Sony. I usually get the files directly because those apps are flaky.

2. It's basically marketing term. It's just a newer version of virtual surround. I dont hear anything special about it. A 2000s sound blaster can do the same thing. Should be called Virtual Dolby Atmos.

3. Marketing again. Any speaker can be classifed as Dolby Atmos just because it bounces off a wall and being pumped a DA output signal.

Remember all DA music on these streaming services is lossy not lossless.
 

Sancus

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1. No, no issues here. Issues with Atmos on a 3700H is super unlikely. Issues with the source device are common. Amazon music does not do real Atmos output, ONLY Apple and TIDAL do.

2. Decent Atmos on headphones requires head tracking and an explanation of how that works is complex. But it boils down to, if you know the position of a person's head and have a reasonable guess at their HRTF you can use software to calculate what they should be hearing if they were sitting in the middle of an Atmos system. This is 100% possible and it does actually work, search about the Smyth Realiser for the most impressive implementation.

3. This is a misconception due to you using Amazon which sucks. Like I said, they don't support real Atmos output at all.
 
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luft262

luft262

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1. No, no issues here. Issues with Atmos on a 3700H is super unlikely. Issues with the source device are common. Amazon music does not do real Atmos output, ONLY Apple and TIDAL do.

2. Decent Atmos on headphones requires head tracking and an explanation of how that works is complex. But it boils down to, if you know the position of a person's head and have a reasonable guess at their HRTF you can use software to calculate what they should be hearing if they were sitting in the middle of an Atmos system. This is 100% possible and it does actually work, search about the Smyth Realiser for the most impressive implementation.

3. This is a misconception due to you using Amazon which sucks. Like I said, they don't support real Atmos output at all.

In regards to #3, it appears to get CD quality music and to use Dolby Atmos music with Apple you have to have an Apple device or possibly even Apple TV running to an AVR. If a non-Apple user tried out Tidal and used Heos or even just plugged their laptop into the AVR do you know if it would output Dolby Music on select tracks? Or is Tidal also limited to select devices or speakers? If so I might try out a month of Tidal just to see what Dolby Music sounds like out of curiosity. Thanks for the info.
 

Sancus

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In regards to #3, it appears to get CD quality music and to use Dolby Atmos music with Apple you have to have an Apple device or possibly even Apple TV running to an AVR. If a non-Apple user tried out Tidal and used Heos or even just plugged their laptop into the AVR do you know if it would output Dolby Music on select tracks? Or is Tidal also limited to select devices or speakers? If so I might try out a month of Tidal just to see what Dolby Music sounds like out of curiosity. Thanks for the info.
Yeah you need an AppleTV, I've been thinking about getting one for that purpose. You need specific devices for Tidal Atmos as well but it's AppleTV, Fire TV, or Shield TV.

 
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luft262

luft262

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Sancus

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Jesus, if they're going to make it so restrictive I'll just stick with stereo streaming!

Haha, well I had a shield TV to start with since it's the best non-Apple streaming device by a big margin. Overall though given my whole system cost I don't really care that much about a couple hundred extra bucks for a content device.

Apple is Apple though, they have 0 interest in making anything work well on non-Apple hardware. TIDAL should do better compatibility-wise, I agree.
 
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