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Onkyo TX-RZ50 Review (Home Theater AVR)

Rate this product:

  • 1. Poor (headless panther)

    Votes: 96 31.6%
  • 2. Not terrible (postman panther)

    Votes: 114 37.5%
  • 3. Fine (happy panther)

    Votes: 63 20.7%
  • 4. Great (golfing panther)

    Votes: 31 10.2%

  • Total voters
    304

DonR

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I just found out I couldn't connect a Wii to my Denon. It says it didn't like the resolution using component. So I bought an HDMI Wii adapter which works great. Definitely recommended and preferred for $10.
As long as adapters exist (and work) I am fine with dropping legacy support. In fact, this is preferable to the half-assed attempt in modern receivers to include a legacy port but have it retain only limited functionality, as you have found.
 

peng

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I wish we could know more about the conditions to trigger it for sure. I don't agree with "people haven't noticed so it isn't a problem", however. It could be, but too little is known IMO. Bookshelf speakers have become so common and many like the KEF LS50 or LS50 Meta are only have a sensitivity of 85 and are less than 4ohm. Now imagine in a 7.1 setup. It seems quite likely it could be an issue. I don't know if @amirm has the unit still, or feels it worth investigating what levels trigger it, but the fact it can be triggered and the owner not know it is a problem imo. It's too bad the amps are relatively poor compared to amps in the Denon's. I would think with adding amps to the LCR would greatly reduce the issue from ever happening, but who knows.

The best clue I can use is what Amir said as follow:

Given that vast majority of speakers today are 4 ohm or even lower, this is a serious problem. I could understand it if the amp was cooking but it was quite cool running with the upper fan off. Traditionally this mode would be triggered if you set the amplifier to 4 ohm mode but per above, this did not have an effect here.

So my educated guess is that it probably use the overcurrent sensing scheme to detect impedance of 4 ohms or less when the 4 ohm setting is not in use. In that case they will most likely be a build in delay that for real world use it would not be activated but for Amir's test, if the applied voltage last more than a few seconds then it may get activated. D+M's overcurrent apparently has a delay of 90 seconds but Yamaha and Onkyo's may be shorter, or much shorter. Amir said the 4 ohm mode has no effect but I got the impression that he switch it to 4 ohm mode only after the fact. Also, even if he did select 4 ohm mode in the first place, the way he did his test could have exceeded the trigger point anyway, depending on Onkyo's set point for the protection to activate. There isn't much magic, either the software is defective, or it is just that aggressive by design, and it that case, for being silly.
 

SimpleTheater

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What bothers me about the review and some other AV reviews by Amir is that the effectiveness of the implementation of the Room Eq system (Dirac in this case) will have a much greater impact on sound quality than even the limitations of the power amps, but that is not actually evaluated.
I don't want to single one person out, but all the people who say "but it has DIRAC".

It would be like comparing two vehicles, [1] the manufacturer put in the money, time and effort to limit road noise to under 50 dB at 70 mph, while vehicle [2] cheaped out and tried to sell you garbage because of their brand name and their car output had 70 dB road noise at 70 mph.

Instead of creating more rigid chassis, adding the proper insulation and shocks, the manufacturer of vehicle [2] decided to add BOSE noise canceling technology that used the output of the car audio system to make the vehicle appear to have road noise of 50 dB and then reviewers argue the two are equal (in terms of road noise).

The fact is, I can use REW and so can anyone else who wants to put in a little (ok, a lot of) time and effort (but it's a hobby, so I enjoy spending the time). So I agree with @amirm and I want the best product for the price. Lastly, while DIRAC has its share of fanboys, I've yet to see anyone take the exact same setup, swap out a top-line Yamaha (YPAO), Denon (Audyssey), Adcom (DIRAC) and then put 100 people into that room to A/B/C the three systems.

Do you know why none of the three will do that, because inevitably they will not get a consensus, because different people will like a different room correction, stating A lacked this, B lacked that, C lacked whatever else. With REW, I can ignore a pre-set curve and do what makes me happy.

Sorry for the rant, but this is only the 1,000th such post I've read essentially saying "Ignore the mess, it has DIRAC!".
 

hmt

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It has dirac. And btw your comparison is invalid dirac is not meant to solve the problem with the amps it is a completely different dimension of the product. And you can set som currently ve at REW as much as you want. You still need the AVRS to apply this.
 

GalZohar

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It has dirac. And btw your comparison is invalid dirac is not meant to solve the problem with the amps it is a completely different dimension of the product. And you can set som currently ve at REW as much as you want. You still need the AVRS to apply this.
I suppose he means using PC or miniDSP to apply filters, but this isn't an option for most as PCs are limited on the supported formats and are not cost effective streamers, while miniDSP only works with external amplification, may limit your voltage, and as far as I understand also adds additional ADC and DAC to the chain...

I wonder why there's no Dirac product that works on purely digital signals and forwards the video formats, but I suppose there are reasons for it such as needed to decode the audio formats... But that's getting off-topic.
 

hmt

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And there is only one option for multichannel. That is the DDRC88A and it has 8 channels instead of 12 and a worse SINAD.
 
OP
amirm

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No. There's a fairly long thread about the RZ50 at AVS and this does not seem to be an issue that has arisen. If the power users aren't griping, it's probably not a gripe. And I think people would know. When the limiter engages, the amplifier section appears to put out maybe 40 to 50 watts into 4 ohms before audible clipping sets in. That translates to about 25 watts into 8 ohms, best case.
First, it doesn't do this with 8 ohm load so that bit doesn't matter. I used to be a member on AVS with 25,000 posts. So I know the forum. Those long threads are dominated by a handful of people. It is no survey of even a fraction of customers.

To wit, I tested a Strake amplifier. It produced far less power than specified. People on AVS including one of their formal reviewers swore up and down that this couldn't be so. So I tested a second sample with the same power limit. So while AVS members tend to be anal and find many bugs and such, this kind of power limiting is not so obvious for them to notice.

Let's remember that it is not our job as consumers to bend to limitations of technology. It makes no sense for the product to work this way as far as a customer is concerned. They probably put this in there to save the unit from damage, or failing regulatory testing as far as heat build-up. Neither one of these factors is to the benefit of the consumer.

If all we wanted was short term power, we could opt for weaker amplifiers, not one specified as such.

This is a competitive market and if Onkyo wants to take this shortcut, they can. But they need to document it and have an indicator for it. Then, we would know how many people are seeing the issue as to look for it. And make purchase decisions that way.
 

Timcognito

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SimpleTheater is saying room correction is subjective but amplification measurements are not. Both can be objectively measured. I do agree with premise that if something fundamental measures poorly then its a no go, including room correction.
 

hmt

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Actually he said nothing like this. You both are interpreting. Again, yes the amps are not good but that does not render the whole unit useless as such.
 
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amirm

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Actually he said nothing like this. You both are interpreting. Again, yes the amps are not good but that does not render the whole unit useless as such.
Of course it is not useless by any stretch. Just don't buy it because you think it doesn't have the issues it has.
 

Keened

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The big take away from this should be:

This is a very reasonably priced/equipped pre-pro
  • It can handle 11.1 channels
  • Supports 40Gbps HDMI 2.1 on multiple ports
  • Processes Atmos
  • Allows for command-over-IP
    • And a phone based control app
  • Supports multi-channel Dirac
    • Including measurements done with a proper microphone
  • Can more or less handle CD quality audio without an issue
  • Delivers sufficient voltage for most power amps
It just happens to be in a big box with bad amps.

Could it be better? Yeah. Should it be better? Maybe. But it's more or less going toe-to-toe with pre-pros 2-10x its price so...
 

hmt

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Of course it is not useless by any stretch. Just don't buy it because you think it doesn't have the issues it has.
Agreed. The fact that Onkyo markets this as an AVR as as powerful as the D&M flagships or a NAD T778 is ridiculous. It will have issues for people that need a powerful am because of their speakers. I remember that some people even drove their Arcam AVR390 to shut of because of its rather agressive limiter when watching movies because dirac sometimes boosts. That will cause issues with the Onkyo for shure unless you cross over your speakers at 80Hz or higher.
 

SimpleTheater

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Actually he said nothing like this. You both are interpreting. Again, yes the amps are not good but that does not render the whole unit useless as such.
That's exactly what I said. However, Sharp Malaysia just contacted me and they're sending me a special unit to test. I'll let everyone know how it performs, but it should be an audiophile gem.
 

Dj7675

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That's exactly what I said. However, Sharp Malaysia just contacted me and they're sending me a special unit to test. I'll let everyone know how it performs, but it should be an audiophile gem.
Can you elaborate? Are they sending you another version of this model, or a different model?
 

f1shb0n3

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I think inclusion of Dirac bass management may still be worth the "2 steps forward 1 step back" approach we see here.
RZ50 doesn’t have Dirac Bass Management, only Dirac Live 20-20kHz.
Still a great unit with unique feature set for the price, even with the 4 ohm issues of the amp.
 

scott_7723

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Lots of speculation with little real world use. If someone can setup the Onkyo TX-RZ50 in multi-channel stereo mode, let it run for several hours and listen to it at the end of the test. Then unplug it, wait 60 sec and turn it back on. Then answer the question - "Does it sound the same through the entire test"?

That answer would tell me what I need to know. :D
Newly registered, first time posting. Owner of RZ50, setup as 7.1.4, with an inexpensive external amp for rear surround, using internal amps for all else, paired with all Klipsch reference speakers circa 2003 to 2021 productions.

I recognize this forum is on an elevated level regarding everything, including performance expectations requiring validation through measurement rather than live listening - which as an Engineer I appreciate and certainly agree with to a point.

I am very pleased with my situation (I have not voted on the poll) with one big exception - not knowing Voxx's position on the Onkyo Japan bankruptcy, which, though I have never (knock on wood) required repair of any of my few past receivers (Pioneer Elite, Sony, Yamaha) - know how that'll work out when not there. My lesser issue involves complications with Zone 2 monitoring of 4k equipment while running Zone 1 with different 4k equipment generating lost signals at Zone 2 - still haven't quashed this one when it rears its ugly head.

Having this setup with all 11 channels, with Dirac calibration in toe, and volume high enough in a 15x20 room to hurt ears at particular moments (haven't used an SPL meter to verify dBs) - I have never encountered sudden drops in volume after hours of movie watching in one sitting. As far as multichannel stereo (All Channel Stereo) I have had no issues with playing music to date at volumes that hurt my family's ears but not mine. I have sustained minor hearing loss from all the ridiculous concerts, guitar playing and heavy music I listened to over the years. But, I have not yet encountered a time when it made sense to keep the volumes so high that it makes my family or friends want to leave the room because it hurts. Only application would be a party where for my use case, becomes a use of a network of speakers across the house using other sources anyhow.

But for the family sitting down and going to the home theater, this is the first of any in my budget that have put smiles on my little kids faces and fooled them to thinking things are happening behind them and over head that they think is in the house. I suppose gone are the days for me to be the TDK man in the chair at my place in life at this time....
 
Last edited:

Reed

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See review of Amir on that speaker. He recommends a beefy amp. Sitting at 9 feet, combined with a sensitivity of just 85, seems like a recipe for a problem If listening very loudly with internal amps.

View attachment 186862
See review of Amir on that speaker. He recommends a beefy amp. Sitting at 9 feet, combined with a sensitivity of just 85, seems like a recipe for a problem If listening very loudly with internal amps.

View attachment 186862
Yeah, the issue is lots of ASR reviewed speakers get under 4ohms (Revel M105, F35, etc). Onkyo will have nothing but warranty complaints unless you use high-efficiency speakers like Klipsch if this is truly the case. I want to know if using a sub with a 80hz cutoff helps and does volume come into play. I have seen a manufacturer (can’t remember who) warn against turning on their amp with no speakers hooked up. I just wonder if that led to some of the issues we see. I think we need some actual users to chime in.
 

dlaloum

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The big take away from this should be:

This is a very reasonably priced/equipped pre-pro
  • It can handle 11.1 channels
  • Supports 40Gbps HDMI 2.1 on multiple ports
  • Processes Atmos
  • Allows for command-over-IP
    • And a phone based control app
  • Supports multi-channel Dirac
    • Including measurements done with a proper microphone
  • Can more or less handle CD quality audio without an issue
  • Delivers sufficient voltage for most power amps
It just happens to be in a big box with bad amps.

Could it be better? Yeah. Should it be better? Maybe. But it's more or less going toe-to-toe with pre-pros 2-10x its price so...

To be fair - the amps seem to meet their specifications and be quite powerful in terms of transient/dynamic/peak response.

They have howeer instituted some sort of protection circuits which seem to kick in way too early - particularly during stress testing.

Subjective testing has found no flaws, but given the way the protection circuit works, it is impossible to measure the amps properly and determine what their quantitative capabilities are.

So - we get upset with the Nanny circuit, and pan the amps - possibly unfairly - lack of evidence is not evidence of lack.

The only thing we can say, is that if in actual real life, you have hard to drive speakers, where the demands on the amps start to resemble the 5W tests Amir used (by no means an overly unusual circumstance) - then you may trigger the nanny circuit.... - And a small minority of users have indeed reported this.
 
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