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Genelec 8351B Review (Studio Monitor)

Ambientwks

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I'm hearing these on top of the W371 today, and can't wait!

While I think the waveguide will provide great, even response in a domestic setting (unless you live in a gigantic house) I do agree with Amir's comments about output. Also agree that these will shine in a sat/sub config (ideally GLM as it's trivial to set up and works great).

I also agree that it may be too much detail for some in a hifi application. The group delay settings do give a kind of 'sharp/natural' option, but you will still hear everything. Personally would only use these in the studio.
 

Ambientwks

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What do you mean? Unnatural details?
Not unnatural, but really a lot of specific detail you wouldn't always expect. I will use these or the 61's for mastering for that reason.

To give an example - i spent 30 minutes listening to predelay and room size/depth changes on a room reverb (Valhalla), and the changes were so obvious it was as if I'd never heard them before. Just not needing to strain to hear what's changing. Each setting suggesting a musical context to me (i.e. giving me more information to decide with). I have been doing audio engineering for a long time at this point so I was surprised.

Personally, when i sit down in front of my hi-fi, I don't want to hear all that - I want a more 'well integrated' and slightly less clinical presentation. I hadn't really thought that before hearing these.

To be clear(!) It definitely isn't a frequency response thing. My guess is that it's due to the very low distortion, great impulse response, and group delay adjustments.

In the end, it's always down to what your goal is!
 

Ambientwks

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Also worth mentioning perhaps that I'm currently using Amphion Argon 7LS with an Ayre/Benchmark front end in my living room. I think of that as the more natural presentation I'm referring to above. For some, those may already be on the clinical side(?)
 

daftcombo

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Also worth mentioning perhaps that I'm currently using Amphion Argon 7LS with an Ayre/Benchmark front end in my living room. I think of that as the more natural presentation I'm referring to above. For some, those may already be on the clinical side(?)
I don't know but you seem to refer to "blurry" vs "precise".

I understand it though, if it's a bit like seeing the world with / without glasses. Sometimes it's better without if that way you don't see stains and smears.
 

Ambientwks

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That analogy works! But it's more like the difference between a great set of lenses for your glasses or the best set (which is usually 2x the price of the great set). There is nothing blurry about the presentation for either, but one is still sharper.

Obviously the analogy breaks down at some point but a nice way of thinking about it. For what it's worth, I sometimes take walks without my glasses on, so I don't need to worry about all that extra detail...
 

Tangband

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Not unnatural, but really a lot of specific detail you wouldn't always expect. I will use these or the 61's for mastering for that reason.

To give an example - i spent 30 minutes listening to predelay and room size/depth changes on a room reverb (Valhalla), and the changes were so obvious it was as if I'd never heard them before. Just not needing to strain to hear what's changing. Each setting suggesting a musical context to me (i.e. giving me more information to decide with). I have been doing audio engineering for a long time at this point so I was surprised.

Personally, when i sit down in front of my hi-fi, I don't want to hear all that - I want a more 'well integrated' and slightly less clinical presentation. I hadn't really thought that before hearing these.

To be clear(!) It definitely isn't a frequency response thing. My guess is that it's due to the very low distortion, great impulse response, and group delay adjustments.

In the end, it's always down to what your goal is!
How one experience sound quality is more or less subjective. Are you feeding your 8351 with a digital signal ? Its slightly better than analog connection soundwise.:)

Im enjoying my 8340 with digital connection and XMOS USB bridge with 0,1 PPM clocks very much. The Yamaha wxc50 with digital out or analog, sounds slightly less natural.

I visited a live concert yesterday with flute, the concert by C Nielsen , and the sound mirrors the sound I already have in my livingroom when playing high resolution material from Apple Music.

A 8340 with a really good digital signal outperforms a 8351 with analog signal , even if you have a really good external dac.

Buying 83xx genelecs is a waste of money if one dont use a digital input signal.
 
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Ambientwks

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How one experience sound quality is more or less subjective. Are you feeding your 8351 with a digital signal ? Its slightly better than analog connection soundwise.

Im enjoying my 8340 with digital connection and XMOS USB bridge with 0,1 PPM clocks very much. On a live concert yesterday with flute concert by C Nielsen , the sound mirrors the sound I already have in my livingroom when playing high resolution material from Apple Music.

A 8340 with a really good digital signal outperforms a 8351 with analog signal , even if you have a really good external dac.
I'll agree on the subjectivity point (though I'd say it the other way round - presentation in the room is objective and tastes/ preferences are subjective).

I'll have to disagree on your comment about the 8340 vs 8351, and would encourage you to get your hands on a demo pair to hook up to your current front end. The 51/61 ones are really something special.

Just got back from hearing the w371 with 51/61 and they do indeed sound like the best mains in the best control rooms. Again, I'd be using these in a studio and not the living room.
 

Pearljam5000

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Not unnatural, but really a lot of specific detail you wouldn't always expect. I will use these or the 61's for mastering for that reason.

To give an example - i spent 30 minutes listening to predelay and room size/depth changes on a room reverb (Valhalla), and the changes were so obvious it was as if I'd never heard them before. Just not needing to strain to hear what's changing. Each setting suggesting a musical context to me (i.e. giving me more information to decide with). I have been doing audio engineering for a long time at this point so I was surprised.

Personally, when i sit down in front of my hi-fi, I don't want to hear all that - I want a more 'well integrated' and slightly less clinical presentation. I hadn't really thought that before hearing these.

To be clear(!) It definitely isn't a frequency response thing. My guess is that it's due to the very low distortion, great impulse response, and group delay adjustments.

In the end, it's always down to what your goal is!
That's exactly why I love the Genelec sound, it's like a musical microscope, reminds me of the HD800
 

Spocko

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Question to Amir would these be good for front speakers in a home theater setting crossed over at 80HZ with subs on the sides
I have 8351 as L/C/R but the subs should not be placed on the sides, they should be placed where measurements demonstrate the flattest response at your listening position. Sub placement is very room specific
 

echopraxia

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A 8340 with a really good digital signal outperforms a 8351 with analog signal , even if you have a really good external dac.
You need to stop spreading these nonsense claims, unless you’re willing to conduct a blind test to back it up — because what you’re saying blatantly contradicts the science. Extraordinary claims requires extraordinary evidence.

To claim you think you hear subtle differences is one thing, but to claim the difference is so huge that it makes an older smaller Genelec sound better than their newer bigger flagship is completely absurd.

It’s hard to be more wrong than you are about this. Unless your analog signal is somehow terribly corrupted, I‘d bet good money that this difference you perceive between digital and analog will disappear if you try to distinguish them in a randomized blind test.

If you disagree, “put up or shut up”, as the saying goes. There've been many blind tests done that contradict your claim. So the burden of proof is on you.
 
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Tangband

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You need to stop spreading these nonsense claims, unless you’re willing to conduct a blind test to back it up — because what you’re saying blatantly contradicts the science. Extraordinary claims requires extraordinary evidence.

To claim you think you hear subtle differences is one thing, but to claim the difference is so huge that it makes an older smaller Genelec sound better than their newer bigger flagship is completely absurd.

It’s hard to be more wrong than you are about this. Unless your analog signal is somehow terribly corrupted, I‘d bet good money that this difference you perceive between digital and analog will disappear if you try to distinguish them in a randomized blind test.

If you disagree, “put up or shut up”, as the saying goes. There've been many blind tests done that contradict your claim. So the burden of proof is on you.
Youre absolutely right about that you cant hear a difference between a digital input or an analog input with 8351 . There is no clear difference if the digital source is bad. With a Yamaha wxc50 the difference between digital or analog connection to my Genelec is really small. The reason is that the Yamaha as a digital source is not very good. My MAC computer with USB bridge and good clocks sounds better, and the difference is clear for all to hear.

A bad digital source gonna sound bad with a digital signal feeding a dac and the sound gonna be exactly the same after the dac- not really good. Most people have not heard what a good digital source can make for the sound. You have very substandard gear when using a Denon AVR as a analog source, but Im sure that the overall sound is better than most home cinemas anyway.

You can believe that all digital sources sound the same ( which is true with all bad digital sources-they sound the same ) and that there is no audible difference with two stages extra ( D/A and A/D with analog connection to 83xx ) , But its just a belief, because you dont know better and havent heard a really good digital source.

Do yourself a favour and try a good digital signal from a good streamer and Ím shure you will change your opinion.
Your loudspeakers are way better than your source are right now.
 
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LTig

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A bad digital source gonna sound bad with a digital signal feeding a dac and the sound gonna be exactly the same after the dac- not really good. Most people have not heard what a good digital source can make for the sound. You have very substandard gear when using a Denon AVR as a source, but Im sure that the overall sound is better than most home cinemas anyway.

You can believe that all digital sources sound the same ( which is true with all bad digital sources-they sound the same ) and that there is no audible difference with two stages extra ( D/A and A/D with analog connection to 83xx ) , But its just a belief, because you dont know better and havent heard a really good digital source.
Uh huh.
Do yourself a favour and try a good digital signal from a good streamer and Ím shure you will change your opinion.
Do yourself a favour and do a test blind.

In 2003 I took part in a test where we compared opical (Toslink) and coax SPDIF connections and I could clearly hear that Toslink sounded worse than coax. At one point though the person who switched the cables did not switch them but I still heared Toslink (now being coax) as worse.This experience cured me.
 

Tangband

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Uh huh.

Do yourself a favour and do a test blind.

In 2003 I took part in a test where we compared opical (Toslink) and coax SPDIF connections and I could clearly hear that Toslink sounded worse than coax. At one point though the person who switched the cables did not switch them but I still heared Toslink (now being coax) as worse.This experience cured me.
I cant either hear a difference between toslink and coaxial spdif. :) . They are just transmission links.
I often hear differences between different digital sources though, but you have to compare them side by side.

Comparing two less good digital sources like Yamaha wxc50 and Bluesound node from coaxial spdif out, youre not gonna hear a clear difference between them. This is where many listener (wrongly) believe every digital gear sound the same. You have to listen to a really good digital source to hear the difference.
 
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Trell

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I cant either hear a difference between toslink and coaxial spdif. :) . They are just transmission links.
I often hear differences between different digital sources though, but you have to compare them side by side.

Comparing two less good digital sources like Yamaha wxc50 and Bluesound node from coaxial spdif out, youre not gonna hear a clear difference between them. This is where many listener (wrongly) believe every digital gear sound the same. You have to listen to a really good digital source to hear the difference.

You regularly write in your posts about "SAM" Genelec monitors that you hear clear differences between analogue and AES/EBU input, and you don't qualify that (except above, as far as I can recall). What you can hear is a slight difference in self-noise if the internal Genelec volume is set at full gain, but I've turned that down as otherwise it's to sensitive.

I use analogue input on my 8330A, internal Genelec volume set to -25 dB (which audibly reduces the self-noise at about -5dB or so), fed by my RME ADI-2 DAC FS. I seriously doubt I would hear any difference if I where to use AES/EBU input fed from my RME Fireface UCX II, assuming that all DSP in the DAC and UCX II was disabled and level matched.
 

Tangband

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You regularly write in your posts about "SAM" Genelec monitors that you hear clear differences between analogue and AES/EBU input, and you don't qualify that (except above, as far as I can recall). What you can hear is a slight difference in self-noise if the internal Genelec volume is set at full gain, but I've turned that down as otherwise it's to sensitive.

I use analogue input on my 8330A, internal Genelec volume set to -25 dB (which audibly reduces the self-noise at about -5dB or so), fed by my RME ADI-2 DAC FS. I seriously doubt I would hear any difference if I where to use AES/EBU input fed from my RME Fireface UCX II, assuming that all DSP in the DAC and UCX II was disabled and level matched.
Try it :)
 

Trell

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Nope, this is not something I'll spend money on to buy new cables, especially as I don't believe there will be any difference except for what I wrote earlier. What I've done is to switch, using GLM, between analogue and digital input (with cables unconnected) and could not hear any difference in self-noise.
 

sarumbear

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I have 8351 as L/C/R but the subs should not be placed on the sides, they should be placed where measurements demonstrate the flattest response at your listening position. Sub placement is very room specific
Genelec themselves disagrees with you.

 

echopraxia

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Youre absolutely right about that you cant hear a difference between a digital input or an analog input with 8351 . There is no clear difference if the digital source is bad. With a Yamaha wxc50 the difference between digital or analog connection to my Genelec is really small. The reason is that the Yamaha as a digital source is not very good. My MAC computer with USB bridge and good clocks sounds better, and the difference is clear for all to hear.

A bad digital source gonna sound bad with a digital signal feeding a dac and the sound gonna be exactly the same after the dac- not really good. Most people have not heard what a good digital source can make for the sound. You have very substandard gear when using a Denon AVR as a analog source, but Im sure that the overall sound is better than most home cinemas anyway.

You can believe that all digital sources sound the same ( which is true with all bad digital sources-they sound the same ) and that there is no audible difference with two stages extra ( D/A and A/D with analog connection to 83xx ) , But its just a belief, because you dont know better and havent heard a really good digital source.

Do yourself a favour and try a good digital signal from a good streamer and Ím shure you will change your opinion.
Your loudspeakers are way better than your source are right now.
You don’t even know what digital source I use, so you have less than no grounds for these absolutely ridiculous anti-scientific claims.

Everything you say flies in the face of all the science and engineering we have on this subject. So again, the burden of proof therefore lies on YOU to demonstrate you can tell the difference in a blind test.

I have posted multiple blind tests I’ve conducted on this forum. How about you? As the saying goes: Talk is cheap. Put up or shut up.
 
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