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Recording quality of Motu mk5 vs M4

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I wanted to purchase a Motu ultralight Mk5 after seeing this review:

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...u-ultralite-mk5-review-audio-interface.24777/

But it turns out that they are out of stock everywhere, and it may take months before one can be obtained.

My main usage will be recording, and I'm considering getting an M4 instead:

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/motu-m4-audio-interface-review.15757/

4 channels are enough, and I don't really need an onboard DSP, so although the mk5 has many nice features, they are not essential for me, and the main reason to get it instead of the M4, was the higher recording specs (ADC SINAD).

They respectively score 114, and 104 in Amir's tests for ADC SINAD.

I'm asking myself this question: does recording quality of the mk5 justify the wait, and the 2x price or the M4 ?
 
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Tks

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Doubt it, I'd wager most studio's have chains of devices who's commulitive SINAD is far worse. Not to mention using who-knows-how-bad microphones themselves (seeing as how lots of mic makers at the high end simply chase some sort of "signature" with their microphones, unless you're opting for scientific ones). You said your main usage is recording, if it's not something to do with laboratory settings, you're fine with the M4 if you ask me.
 

oversorrow

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It depends on your recording requirement, the mic preamp of M4 sounds bad to me. The ADC is pretty nice but the THAT 6263 preamp just doesn't hit my expectation especially when I use dynamic microphones. I am a music producer (recording gear manic) and I really care about the sound quality of a preamp, so after I found this preamp issue with M4 I decided to use an outboard preamp connected with the line input. The MK5's preamp is better than M4s', BUT, it doesn't worth 2x price, and also you said you don't need all that functions of it, so here is my suggestion: get an M4 and record with it, if it's sound good to you, then everything is fine, if not, use that extra money getting an outboard preamp.
 
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It depends on your recording requirement, the mic preamp of M4 sounds bad to me. The ADC is pretty nice but the THAT 6263 preamp just doesn't hit my expectation especially when I use dynamic microphones. I am a music producer (recording gear manic) and I really care about the sound quality of a preamp, so after I found this preamp issue with M4 I decided to use an outboard preamp connected with the line input. The MK5's preamp is better than M4s', BUT, it doesn't worth 2x price, and also you said you don't need all that functions of it, so here is my suggestion: get an M4 and record with it, if it's sound good to you, then everything is fine, if not, use that extra money getting an outboard preamp.

Thanks, these are very helpful advices !

What good outboard preamps would you suggest ?
 
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Larry B. Larabee

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Doubt it, I'd wager most studio's have chains of devices who's commulitive SINAD is far worse. Not to mention using who-knows-how-bad microphones themselves (seeing as how lots of mic makers at the high end simply chase some sort of "signature" with their microphones, unless you're opting for scientific ones). You said your main usage is recording, if it's not something to do with laboratory settings, you're fine with the M4 if you ask me.
If what you say is true and I have no reason to doubt it, almost all recordings are total trash to begin with and any attempt at trying to better this by using different components for reproduction is futile. Everything could be a swindle, especially recorded music unfortunately.
 

oversorrow

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Thanks !

What good outboard preamps would you suggest ?
There are not too many choices in the 300 dollars price range.
Alctron or Golden Age Project will do, depending on your region.
Get an M4 at first and use it in practice, don't consider buying an outboard preamp too soon until you REALLY think the preamp is making an influence on your recording project.
 
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There are not too many choices in the 300 dollars price range.
Alctron or Golden Age Project will do, depending on your region.
Get an M4 at first and use it in practice, don't consider buying an outboard preamp too soon until you REALLY think the preamp is making an influence on your recording project.

Good advice again (to try things, and listen before pouring more money into gear ) ;-)

It seems that microphones are where most of the budget should be spent, then the preamp, and lastly the audio interface.

Being a DiY hobbyist, I am looking at DiY microphone kits such as these:

https://microphone-parts.com/products/s3-87-microphone-kit
https://www.bumblebeepro.com/shop/rm-7-active-diy-ribbon-mic-kit/
 

artburda

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It depends on your recording requirement, the mic preamp of M4 sounds bad to me. The ADC is pretty nice but the THAT 6263 preamp just doesn't hit my expectation especially when I use dynamic microphones.
It has a good EIN, low distortion and a linear frequency response. How is it bad sounding or having a sound of its own at all?
 

oversorrow

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It has a good EIN, low distortion and a linear frequency response. How is it bad sounding or having a sound of its own at all?
I had this question as well when I got M4, because I chose M4 for its nice looking figures, and I naively believed that the better figures it have the better sound quality it shows. I was absolute wrong, the preamp sounds a little bit brittle and edgy but stays clean in general. So the M4 gave me a good lesson about sound quality and parameter.
 

Χ Ξ Σ

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The CueMix5 software that comes with the mk5 alone justifies the price.
 

artburda

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I was absolute wrong, the preamp sounds a little bit brittle and edgy but stays clean in general. So the M4 gave me a good lesson about sound quality and parameter.
Do you have measurements that show this brittle and edgy sound? Or comparison recordings from different preamps?
 

oversorrow

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Do you have measurements that show this brittle and edgy sound? Or comparison recordings from different preamps?
No, just my personal experience. But if you want to watch some comparisons I recommand the Youtube Podcastage channel, watch the M2 episode and the Golden Age Project preamp episode.
 

Blumlein 88

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Results of listening like many audio items indicate mic pres are transparent even when cheap. Real difference is usually not enough gain, impedance mismatch or those few designed to have a non clean sound.
M4 pres are fine unless maybe used with a ribbon microphone.
 

Tks

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Results of listening like many audio items indicate mic pres are transparent even when cheap. Real difference is usually not enough gain, impedance mismatch or those few designed to have a non clean sound.
M4 pres are fine unless maybe used with a ribbon microphone.

Just curious, what's the ribbon mic caveat rationale? Is it some power related thing?
 

Blumlein 88

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Just curious, what's the ribbon mic caveat rationale? Is it some power related thing?
Ribbons take lots of gain, and are more sensitive than other types to input impedance being low. So no damage it just may not have enough gain for some ribbons and may have a lower than optimum impedance. That impedance can alter the response of a ribbon microphone. So even with gain a change in impedance can change the response (sound signature) of a ribbon microphone. Some ribbons may be fine, but some may not be a good match.
 

Tks

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Ribbons take lots of gain, and are more sensitive than other types to input impedance being low. So no damage it just may not have enough gain for some ribbons and may have a lower than optimum impedance. That impedance can alter the response of a ribbon microphone. So even with gain a change in impedance can change the response (sound signature) of a ribbon microphone. Some ribbons may be fine, but some may not be a good match.
So what is required to avoid ribbon issues listed? Is it sort of like headphones, where you want your AMP's output impedance to be as low as possible as to not mess with the frequency response?
 

Blumlein 88

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So what is required to avoid ribbon issues listed? Is it sort of like headphones, where you want your AMP's output impedance to be as low as possible as to not mess with the frequency response?
I'm not an expert on that. Generally you don't want too low an input impedance and there is a great variability between different ribbon designs. Lots of times the preamp needs 3 kohm input impedance to make a ribbon happy. Some interfaces are 1.2 kohm input impedance, and many(most) ribbons will work with it they just might work a little better with more.

An AEA R88 ribbon for instance says minimum input impedance of 1.2 kohms (the microphone is 270 ohms output impedance), but many will tell you it is better with 2 k or 2.5 kohms.

Ribbons have rather variable impedance that changes quite a bit in the lowest couple octaves and the top octave. So a higher input impedance is less effected by that in terms of altering frequency response. For instance this is the impedance plot for a Cascade Vin-jet.

1643932001616.png
 

Tks

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Okay, so I need the opposite of what you would see in the headphone amp example? In fact a large input impedance? That's what rectifies this ribbon caveat? (Keep in mind, I am completely when it comes to how mics behave and how ADCs, or I should say mic preamps are expected to work from a performance point of view).
 

Longshan

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I wanted to purchase a Motu ultralight Mk5 after seeing this review:

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...u-ultralite-mk5-review-audio-interface.24777/

But it turns out that they are out of stock everywhere, and it may take months before one can be obtained.

My main usage will be recording, and I'm considering getting an M4 instead:

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/motu-m4-audio-interface-review.15757/

4 channels are enough, and I don't really need an onboard DSP, so although the mk5 has many nice features, they are not essential for me, and the main reason to get it instead of the M4, was the higher recording specs (ADC SINAD).

They respectively score 114, and 104 in Amir's tests for ADC SINAD.

I'm asking myself this question: does recording quality of the mk5 justify the wait, and the 2x price or the M4 ?
Nope. Just get the Motu M4. Once you stop reading about sound quality online, you'll never think about it again.
 
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