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Recommend a 'budget' DAC to share between Headphone Amp and Integrated Amp? Or not!

huggzymers

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Question for you all. Thanks in advance for any help/replies.

Question

How do people typically share a DAC with a headphone amp and an integrated amp for speakers? I currently have 2 DACs, one for headphone and one for speakers, but thinking of consolidating into one unit.

Are there any budget(ish) DACs out there with multiple RCA outputs and a switch, or is that something only higher end models have? By budget I'm thinking around $AUD500, i.e the price of 2 budget DACs!). Not interested in bluetooth, MQA, remote control. Just looking for a decent-ish featureless DAC, but with 2 RCA outputs to avoid purchasing 2 separate DACs for headphones and speakers.

Am I overthinking this? Is it just a RCA Y-splitter situation...? I've seen passive switch boxes but the prices of those things seems only justifiable if you are spending $$$ on your components. Buying a passive switch box that is more expensive than your DAC doesn't make sense!

My set up

The two DACs I currently have are: Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 (Gen2) Audio Interface and an original Cambridge Audio DAC Magic (limited to 44.1khz via USB). On the amp side I have a SMSL SP200 headphone amp and a Marantz PM 7200 for the speakers (Yamaha NS690III).

The Focusrite doesn't seem terribly well regarded as a DAC, and the CA is fully featured but somewhat older. Doing a listening test, it's actually really hard to tell the difference between the two. I'd say that the CA edges out the focusrite for detail and smoothness, but hard to tell due to a significant volume difference where the CA seems much louder. And if it's hard to tell, perhaps there isn't a difference......

My philosophy..?
I'm not sure where I sit on the objectivity v subjectivity debate, probably closer to objective. In my mind, uncompressed FLAC sounds better than MP3s, that's easy.. Hi Res uncompressed FLACs sound the same as CDs. But the biggest impact I have noted on the sound I experience is the mastering of albums (dynamic range, and other things, i.e Beatles original 60s vinyl v 80s CDs v 2000s remasters) and in respect of my speaker set up, the impact of the room.

I don't discount the possibility of the choice of a DAC impacting on the sound in some way. But curious to see whether more recent DACs will sound different to the older units I currently have. Whether an upgrade is worth it. But not so curious to needlessly throw money at the situation!

I'm relatively easy to please once I've reached a certain level of sound. Not too prone to upgrading, happy to settle into one setup and stay there indefinitely!

Would appreciate any thoughts, suggestions, comments etc. Thanks!
 

radix

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Topping DX3Pro+. great dac, great headphone amp. You can use HP only, line-out only, or both at the same time. Has a volume knob on the front. It can take in 2x coax, 1x optical, 1x usb, and 1x bluetooth. it has 1x RCA output (L+R) and 1x 3.5mm HP jack. I think it's $200 USD.
 
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huggzymers

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Topping DX3Pro+. great dac, great headphone amp. You can use HP only, line-out only, or both at the same time. Has a volume knob on the front. It can take in 2x coax, 1x optical, 1x usb, and 1x bluetooth. it has 1x RCA output (L+R) and 1x 3.5mm HP jack. I think it's $200 USD.
Thanks radix.

Oh man, that sounds like the ideal unit. I wish I'd read reviews/descriptions more carefully. I have a slight preference for separates over AIOs, so while I was aware of the DX3Pro+, I probably skimmed over it at the time when I was purchasing. But it sounds like it does all that I need a unit to do.

I only just recently bought the SMSL SP200 amp (this month)! Maybe I need to buy and sell gear quickly inorder to have the full audiophile/audio enthusiast experience!
 
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huggzymers

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Also, I probably should mention that the headphones I need to drive are the Sennsheiser 6XX. Which may be relevant if anyone does suggest any more combo DAC/Amps. And as I mentioned I am rather easily pleased, so I'm unlikely to add to this collection of 1!
 

raistlin65

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If you wanted to keep using your Cambridge Audio DAC, you could order the THX 789 amp from drop.com.

The RCA outs are pass-throughs for the RCA inputs, and it will pass it through when the headphone amp isn't even turned on. So you can connect your Marantz to those outputs.

That being said, I would probably go with the DX3 Pro+ since it has plenty of amplification for your needs and has a great DAC built in.
 
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huggzymers

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If you wanted to keep using your Cambridge Audio DAC, you could order the THX 789 amp from drop.com.

The RCA outs are pass-throughs for the RCA inputs, and it will pass it through when the headphone amp isn't even turned on. So you can connect your Marantz to those outputs.

That being said, I would probably go with the DX3 Pro+ since it has plenty of amplification for your needs and has a great DAC built in.
Thanks raistlin65, I did actually look closely at the THX789 for that exact reason. But I think it was about $100 more than the SMSL SP200 they had on sale at the time (NYE 2021) and I was under the impression at the time that a simple bit of Y cabling would be easy to do to split a DAC output from my Focusrite, but which turned out to be a bit more complicated. So I didn't get the THX 789 as it seemed a premium 'just' for the line out.

The Cambridge Audio DAC Magic is actually a new addition, so not really attached to it. I asked a friend if I could borrow it to compare against my Focusrite and he gifted it to me!

I think the Cambridge Audio and the Focusrite are around 15 to 8 years old respectively. They still function really well, but I've not been able to compare them to higher end or more modern DACs to determine if there's any SQ difference. What is clear however, is that current models offer way more features, as well as more convenient AIO form factor. Quite interesting to think that I could replace my current jumble of boxes (Cambridge Audio DAC Magic, Focusrite Scarlett 2i2, SMSL SP200) with the DX3PRO+ (although I'd keep the Focusrite for Audio interface recording activities).
 

radix

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Thanks raistlin65, I did actually look closely at the THX789 for that exact reason. But I think it was about $100 more than the SMSL SP200 they had on sale at the time (NYE 2021) and I was under the impression at the time that a simple bit of Y cabling would be easy to do to split a DAC output from my Focusrite, but which turned out to be a bit more complicated. So I didn't get the THX 789 as it seemed a premium 'just' for the line out.

The Cambridge Audio DAC Magic is actually a new addition, so not really attached to it. I asked a friend if I could borrow it to compare against my Focusrite and he gifted it to me!

I think the Cambridge Audio and the Focusrite are around 15 to 8 years old respectively. They still function really well, but I've not been able to compare them to higher end or more modern DACs to determine if there's any SQ difference. What is clear however, is that current models offer way more features, as well as more convenient AIO form factor. Quite interesting to think that I could replace my current jumble of boxes (Cambridge Audio DAC Magic, Focusrite Scarlett 2i2, SMSL SP200) with the DX3PRO+ (although I'd keep the Focusrite for Audio interface recording activities).
I have a Scarlett Solo that I use for mic (w/ 48v) and the dx3pro+ for dac/preamp. I use active speakers (neumann), so the dx3pro+ goes straight to the speakers. It's really nice having only the dx3pro+ as the "audio chain."
 
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huggzymers

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I have a Scarlett Solo that I use for mic (w/ 48v) and the dx3pro+ for dac/preamp. I use active speakers (neumann), so the dx3pro+ goes straight to the speakers. It's really nice having only the dx3pro+ as the "audio chain."

Thanks again Radix. I agree that it would be nice to have just one box on the desk doing all the work, but at the same time, if SQ is comparable between my existing set up and the dxpro3+, I'm actually happy to sit on my random collection of boxes for now and make do. As it's honestly hardly making do. My set up sounds pretty good as is. Would be interested to see what new products get released once the chip shortage and supply issues are worked out in the global economy. It doesn't seem like it's interrupted release of new models for some companies, but I'm sure it's been headaches aplenty inside of the companies.

Actually, one of the key motivations behind getting a DAC to feed my headphones and my speakers is having the same quality source (even if the amps are different) between the two. I'd hate to have a 'superior' DAC feeding the headphones, and the 'inferior' feeding the speakers or vice versa. Plugging and unplugging the better DAC would be a pain, as would be the sense of settling for inferior quality SQ because I can't be bothered swapping boxes around.

Having said that, the dxpro3+ is still compelling proposition feature wise + pricing.
 

fuzzy_logic

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The Project Head Box S2 also has RCA pass-through, and is quite a bit cheaper than the THX 789. Not many reviews of it though.
Could you use the Tape Out from your speaker amp to connect a headphone amp?
 
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huggzymers

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The Project Head Box S2 also has RCA pass-through, and is quite a bit cheaper than the THX 789. Not many reviews of it though.
Could you use the Tape Out from your speaker amp to connect a headphone amp?
Thanks Fuzzy_Logic.

Actually a friend of mine who is my occasional all-things-audio mentor did suggest that to me (i.e. DAC - > Marantz Speaker Amp - > line out -> Headphone amp) but I momentarily forgot about this option when I posted. I am reluctant to rely on it long term because the Marantz runs quite hot. And in a hot Australian summer, in a poorly insulated 19th brick home, with no air con it gets to 30 degrees + (86 farenheit) inside, overnight. Quite unpleasant and the thought of adding more heat...no thanks.

But maybe I can use the Marantz hooked up like this in winter! It won't cut down on my heating bill necessarily but I may as well have tunes while I keep the place warm!
 

radix

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I'm not sure specifically which DAC Magic you have. Amir reviewed the DAC Magic 100: 0.0009% THD+N, 100 dB SINAD, ~ 17 bits of DR. The DX3Pro+ is 0.0001% THD+N, 116 dB SINAD, and ~ 22 bits of DR. So, I'd say the DX3Pro+ is a fair bit better. Could you hear the difference? Maybe not.


He also reviewed the DAC Magic Plus, which is even worse.

 

Joe Smith

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I just use one of these cheap items - about $12 on eBay. Works fine.

"4-Port RCA Composite Video Audio AV 4-Way Switch Selector Switcher Splitter Box"
 

Trell

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I use a combined DAC and headphone amp that works very well for me, and that is the way to go to if you want to reduce clutter. To the DAC I’ve connect an audio interface via ADAT that is stacked on top of it. Makes for something compact on a desktop.

On ASR there are reviewed many very good DAC/headphone amp combos, so choose one based on things like features, connectivity, usability, build quality, support and price.
 

shrimp_dude

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I was under the impression at the time that a simple bit of Y cabling would be easy to do to split a DAC output from my Focusrite, but which turned out to be a bit more complicated
What is making the y-cable route complicated?
 
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huggzymers

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I'm not sure specifically which DAC Magic you have. Amir reviewed the DAC Magic 100: 0.0009% THD+N, 100 dB SINAD, ~ 17 bits of DR. The DX3Pro+ is 0.0001% THD+N, 116 dB SINAD, and ~ 22 bits of DR. So, I'd say the DX3Pro+ is a fair bit better. Could you hear the difference? Maybe not.


He also reviewed the DAC Magic Plus, which is even worse.

Yep thanks I saw that review. I have the precursor to the DAC Magic 100, so the first iteration, the plain old 'Dac Magic'.

The original Dac Magic doesn't seem to exist on the Cambridge Audio website anymore. No listing, drivers or supporting documentation I could find. Luckily Windows 10 automatically detected it so no driver installation necessary. Managed to find a review https://www.tnt-audio.com/sorgenti/dacmagic_e.html and a spec sheet https://cdn.billiger.com/dynimg/xE3...acMagic-schwarz-Technische-Details-f3437d.pdf in the unlikely event someone else in the same boat stumbles on this thread.

Main dif between original and later iterations, is that the original was limited to 48kHz via USB. So dunno what it does to higher res files I have. Does it make a sound difference? I dunno the answer to that question. Is there a difference in sound between Dac Magic and Dac Magic 100? Dunno the answer to that either!

The more I think about this the more I'm tempted to just make do for now. Leave the focusrite to drive the Marantz + Speakers, as after all the room itself is not idea, and drive the 6XX headphones with the Cambridge Audio and SMSL SP200. I quite like the SMSL SP200. Sounds decent and revealing (although the headphone and amp combo has made some poorly mixed music a lot less enjoyable! Poor Laura Marling!) and it seems like a nice little quality unit, low on features but decent performance and slightly quirky with its rhomboid shape.
 
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huggzymers

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What is making the y-cable route complicated?
It possibly isn't. But the things that confused me where:

- Confusion 1 -
I was originally going to split the signal out of the focusrite, which has balanced 1/4 jacks, via a 1/4 inch to rca connector. Then I stumbled on a blog post by JDS labs on how to connect an Audio Interface to a headphone amp and it confused me.
They've suggested one needs to take care to connect these balanced outputs to a unbalanced headphone amp (note the SMSL SP has balanced inputs, but only the XLR. The RCAs are unbalanced).

- Confusion 2-
Interestingly the Focusrite manual specifies that one can use unbalanced out puts out of the outputs, no probs. Contradiction! Confusion 2!

- Confusion 3 -
Splitting the signal out of the outputs with a y-splitter halves the signal. Or it doesn't. Confusion 3!

- Confusion 4 -
Getting decent y-splitter cables of short length is, for some reason, hard to find or expensive. Due to a coupon I have, I can get a SMSL Sanskrit Mk II for about $100.... and when I was considering these issues I would've preferred spending a little more on a DAC that was supposed to be better than the DAC in a focusrite, than spending $30-50 on cables.

So a range of little issues jumbling around in my head. Cathartic to get it all out. All this stuff made me consider upgrading to a higher end DAC that could serve both my outputs.
 

Robin L

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I've got the Topping E/L 30 combo. I suppose it's much like the DX Pro +. The headphone output is flawless for my Drop 6XX 'phones, there's a variable line out that goes to my AVR. What I've got are two small boxes, the DX Pro + is one small box. I find what I've got works as well as anything I've owned.
 
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huggzymers

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I've got the Topping E/L 30 combo. I suppose it's much like the DX Pro +. The headphone output is flawless for my Drop 6XX 'phones, there's a variable line out that goes to my AVR. What I've got are two small boxes, the DX Pro + is one small box. I find what I've got works as well as anything I've owned.
Thanks Robin, just to clarify, is your sound chain:

PC > Topping E30 > Topping L30 > AVR,

with the Topping L30 > AVR connection coming out of the L30 outputs?

If so that's a neat feature.
 

Robin L

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Thanks Robin, just to clarify, is your sound chain:

PC > Topping E30 > Topping L30 > AVR,

with the Topping L30 > AVR connection coming out of the L30 outputs?

If so that's a neat feature.
Right. I set the volume for my Yamaha RX-V461 AVR at 0db. I've got a tiny Fiio M3K Dap that I connect via another input. The computer goes to "CD" because it plays CDs, in addition to the laptop. The DAP input is "DVD" for no damned good reason other than there is no DAP input. I can adjust the volume on the DAP to around the same volume levels when I attach it to headphones. The Topping has USB, Coax and Toslink digital inputs. The computer [I-Tunes & You Tube, not to mention movies] connects via USB. My Sony BDP-BX57 Blu Ray player is via coax. I have heard that some people have had issues with the E30 not properly connecting to some DVD and CD players, I've had no problems so far. The Topping L30 has a very smooth volume knob and three switchable levels of attenuation. The E30 has a miniature remote control that's probably behind the desk right now because I can't find it. One can adjust volume via the Remote thru the DAC if one wants to. Fortunately, I don't. Because audio levels are all over the place on YouTube, it turns out that three position audio level switch on the L30 is more useful than one would first guess.
 
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