2005/6 is like 4 dog years when it comes to electronics and the level of fidelity we can achieve today. The rise in performance has been anything but linear. I doubt the fatigue was caused by the amp. More likely the dac.
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Vera Audio P400/1000 Review (Amplifier)
- Thread starter amirm
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Please, if no front panel power button, include a 12V trigger. Great to see it on this amp.I personally was referring to this particular model of button that you see very often in diy amps and about the position i was referring to the center of the fascia, also very typical diy. Again, personal taste, this amp seems to be anything but diy
But to answer your question i can also give you an example. Very recently here an amp coming also from Norway was criticised for having the power button hidden under the front panel. I had that amp and think it was a great place to have it: very accessible, discrete, not evident for the curious visiting child.... yes, if you are a reviewer and you use 5 amps a week can be difficult to find, but when it is your amp, your fingers will go directly to that exact point after a few days and forever. Just an example.
Also agree with aasearles that specially at this price level there very pretty devices that go well beyond the aluminium brick
My 2cents.
Walter
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I'm a huge fan of Buckeye, and he makes amps I could actually afford if I were still in the USA. There will always be a point of diminishing returns as price and quality go up. I belive this amp is also very good value for all the things it does right. If I needed this much power, and could afford it, this would absolutely be my amplifier of choice.
Milled from solid block of aluminum with elegant look and feel, active cooling that allows for far longer lifespan, continuously high output and/or more placement options, very versatile gain adjustment is fantastic for those of us who fiddle with active speakers and it can easily be bridged for stupid amount of power if needed.
Yes, you pay more for this, but you get something back. The value of these things must be considered a personal thing, but the price isn't unreasonable at all. We've seen how stupid and dangerous some of the cheap stuff can be built by incompetent people, so for me at least, competence and safety is also a factor worth paying for.
Yes, you pay more for this, but you get something back. The value of these things must be considered a personal thing, but the price isn't unreasonable at all. We've seen how stupid and dangerous some of the cheap stuff can be built by incompetent people, so for me at least, competence and safety is also a factor worth paying for.
I not see why to complain about the price.
Compared to some so called high-end toys its a steal.
Solid measurements, solid power, solid look, solid equiptet.
For me it has that pro feeling brought into hifi world.
Ok not for that carver tube guys, they prefer to discuss if there same expensive amp has 15,25 or 75W and possibly is dangerous for your health.
Compared this amp is for the same money a F22 jet fighter vs a otto lilienthal gleiter.
Compared to some so called high-end toys its a steal.
Solid measurements, solid power, solid look, solid equiptet.
For me it has that pro feeling brought into hifi world.
Ok not for that carver tube guys, they prefer to discuss if there same expensive amp has 15,25 or 75W and possibly is dangerous for your health.
Compared this amp is for the same money a F22 jet fighter vs a otto lilienthal gleiter.
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Now, who was that audio reviewer that always quoted Voltaire: Le mieux est l'ennemi du bien.
In high power class D amplifiers like the Vera P400/1000 the output coils of the NC500 gets quite hot at high power levels. Since these are located close to the surrounding capacitors it will heat them up as well. 90 degrees celcius (194F) is not uncommon, and I have in fact managed to push the temp up to 105 degrees celcius (221F) under really heavy load.
The picture below show the situation after a while with music at 800W peak levels (Bridged). The coil is 98,4C (211F), and the capacitors are 74C (165F)
To reduce this heat problem we use this aluminum heat block that removes the heat from the coils. The heat block is pushed down with the spring (shown on top) that is attached to the lid. Heat is dissipated to the cabinet through the slot/channel in the middle
We measure the temperature on each coil with two NTC temperature sensors glued to the coils. Fan speed is controlled dynamically based on the temperature on the coils.
When the temperature exceeds 65C (149F) the fans starts at 500RPM. The Noctua fans are truly totally silent at this low speed, but the slight breeze directed towards the modules through the fan ducts is enough to keep the temperature under control even under extreme load.
The picture below show the situation after a while with music at 800W peak levels (Bridged). The coil is 98,4C (211F), and the capacitors are 74C (165F)
To reduce this heat problem we use this aluminum heat block that removes the heat from the coils. The heat block is pushed down with the spring (shown on top) that is attached to the lid. Heat is dissipated to the cabinet through the slot/channel in the middle
We measure the temperature on each coil with two NTC temperature sensors glued to the coils. Fan speed is controlled dynamically based on the temperature on the coils.
When the temperature exceeds 65C (149F) the fans starts at 500RPM. The Noctua fans are truly totally silent at this low speed, but the slight breeze directed towards the modules through the fan ducts is enough to keep the temperature under control even under extreme load.
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So you would say this amp is thermal stabel for more than 8h under full load, near clipping conditions?
Uhps sry under room conditions 20-35C.
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What I see is that this amp is very nicely executed, carefully designed and provides us with a pricepoint of what it cost to purchase a state of the art, high power amplifier. The Benchmark provides the absolute best measurements with less power for a similar price. My takeaway is that the best performing amps cost about $3000 US for the consumer. Any amplifier that costs more should have more power, be cleaner, or offer some useful feature this or the AHB do not have. Likewise close to the same performance can be had for about 1/3 of the price (hypex nc502) but you give up on the nice design details, better cases, and features.
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I have been running Hypex amps for about 2 years on my desktop and main systems. I listen to my desktop system about 6 hours a day, still waiting for that Class D fatigue to set in.
Just assuming Amir spent time listening, his conclusion would be it sounds the same as his reference Mark Levinson amps. Then the response would be Amir is deaf if he can’t hear the vast difference between the two. This site is Audiosciencereview, not placeboaudio.com. All subjective differences in amps that people claim to hear magically disappear when they do a double blind listen, assuming 1) neither amp is clipping, and 2) both amps have reasonably low distortion (i.e. less than .5% and really less than about 2%).
Yes.
Here is a test I ran with a continous sine signal of 600W into 8 Ohm (69V RMS). That is just 4dB lower than the clipping limit at 1.5kW (110V). The crest factor of a sine wave is 3dB, and no music has a crest factor of less than 7dB so this should be a more than good enough test.
The test was run for 1106 seconds and we can see that the temperature stabilizes after about 400 seconds. Note: The amp was already warm when I started the test as I just ramped up from 300W.
The output coils are the yellow and light blue colour around 79C (174F). The fan speed is around 2000RPM. It is possible to hear the fans at 2000RPM but the sound is still very faint and probably nothing that will bother you when pumping aout 1.5kW in the music peaks
This is how the cabinet looks like under this test. The warmest spot was 58C (136F). In the background my fan cooled dummy load is sweating at 128 degrees ( 262F).
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Three large, which is small in the universe of 'high-end' amps, seems to be the sweet spot, for cutting edge. At any price, this little amp qualifies for the short list.
I checked out their site (Sound and Acoustics) and was happy to see a human work-out fitness plan. I've not seen anything like that on a hi-fi manufacturer site, before. I think keeping fit is important, but is often overlooked as we get older. Would that I was as fit and trim, and strong and robust, as this little big amplifier. But in spite of my almost daily work-out routine, I'm more a Dynaco ST-70 than a Vera (or Benchmark).
Prana Ferox
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I very much like the industrial design of this product. It is a bit generic but that's OK. (E: It would perfectly match my Sliger Console HTPC.) This isn't the price range I play in but if it was, I'd see about getting some nicely finished wood side panels (with the sides cut for the air intake / fan outlet.) What's a nice native Norwegian wood?
The NAD M23 OTOH to me looks awful. Plus it's obviously just reusing parts from elsewhere in the line that also have bad design.
The NAD M23 OTOH to me looks awful. Plus it's obviously just reusing parts from elsewhere in the line that also have bad design.
Yes.
Here is a test I ran with a continous sine signal of 600W into 8 Ohm (69V RMS). That is just 4dB lower than the clipping limit at 1.5kW (110V). The crest factor of a sine wave is 3dB, and no music has a crest factor of less than 7dB so this should be a more than good enough test.
View attachment 181284
The test was run for 1106 seconds and we can see that the temperature stabilizes after about 400 seconds. Note: The amp was already warm when I started the test as I just ramped up from 300W.
The output coils are the yellow and light blue colour around 79C (174F). The fan speed is around 2000RPM. It is possible to hear the fans at 2000RPM but the sound is still very faint and probably nothing that will bother you when pumping aout 1.5kW in the music peaks
This is how the cabinet looks like under this test. The warmest spot was 58C (136F). In the background my fan cooled dummy load is sweating at 128 degrees ( 262F).
View attachment 181292
Let that sucker run for 6h and get some dry ice for your dummys!
No i was joking.
Thx, i realy appreciate that tests. Its that pro spirit i enjoy.If only other Norwegian engineers joined us in H95topic and explained their approach ))
I have a few tracks which would argue with that.
Can't fault your implementation and attention to thermal management though.
Only 0,5dB lower than a pure sine wave at full scale.... "music"???I have a few tracks which would argue with that.
Can't fault your implementation and attention to thermal management though.
Only 0,5dB lower than a pure sine wave at full scale.... "music"???
Just an uncommon genre. Whether an individual likes it or not is a different story.
What is the unit of that crest factor?I have a few tracks which would argue with that.
Can't fault your implementation and attention to thermal management though.
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