Carver Crimson 275 Review (Tube Amp)

[sarumbear]

Yey! The amplifier must be faulty excuse has arrived.

 

[Larry B. Larabee]

R53 is not used to set bias.

R53 is not used to set bias. I am asking if the voltage drop measured across R53 is used to set the bias.

 

[Blumlein 88]

Yey! The amplifier must be faulty excuse has arrived.

I prefer the term broken as designed.

 

[Blumlein 88]

My observation is that one constant here has been your non-stop complaining about what others here are saying. You said your piece: the amp sounds fine to you and it doesn't matter to you how it measures. Good. Everything else is your picking at others for what they have to say, most of which has nothing to do with you except when you hassle them for saying it.

Ever heard the saying, it is easier to con someone than to convince them that they have been conned.

 

[Greg P]

Ever heard the saying, it is easier to con someone than to convince them that they have been conned.

No, but I'll add it to my repertoire!!

 

[norcalscott]

Good Morning, afternoon or evening:

I was really hoping this thread would tighten up with less negative sniping.
Graphs, measurements and true electrical circuit knowledge carry more intellectual weight than the drive by "this is a piece of garbage."

There are way too many posts mentioning the lack of response from Carver employees.

A few of the members mentioned their level of business acumen and experience.
Those individuals should know that a 'corporate response' is a well worded and measured release.
I don't know of any company that would respond once phrases such as class action, regulators, dangerous
are used in context of their product - without investigating the claims and having their council review the findings.

I would assume that the dealers would have the information/remedies first. This would allow them to reach out
to people that actually own their product.

So - let's be patient and wait for a response from a representative.

I would say that it is your posts that have added very little to the conversation. ASR is one of the most professional and thought provoking forums on the web, and I get a lot out of all the different types of knowledge that many of the members here post in every review thread - sure, things go a little off topic now and again, but you have here a collection of folks who continue to amaze me with their level of knowledge of all things audio, and sometimes products of every manner.

You will find plenty of examples here of manufacturers responding to reviews, and by and large they respond very diplomatically and often engage privately with Amir to discuss ways that the products can be improved. I don’t remember too many cases of master distributors/dealers calling the testers childish names.

I don’t want to go so far as to call you a troll, but your passive aggressive posts make me wonder if you have some affiliation with the company or a related company and you are trying to do damage control.

We shall await the “corporate response” you mention. As a person who is involved in product marketing, compliance and lifecycle management, I am very interested to see how Carver (the company that actually makes these) responds.

 

[tomchr]

I find it curious that the fuses are labeled 1A and 3A but the text below them states to use fuses with the same ratings. I also wonder if the fuse labeled B+ Fuse (the 1A one) is actually connected to the B+. If it is, I hope the fuse holder (and the fuse) are rated for use at that voltage.

Tom

 

[Blumlein 88]

I find it curious that the fuses are labeled 1A and 3A but the text below them states to use fuses with the same ratings. I also wonder if the fuse labeled B+ Fuse (the 1A one) is actually connected to the B+. If it is, I hope the fuse holder (and the fuse) are rated for use at that voltage.

Tom

This what the older C-J amps used for output stage fuses, rated for 600 volts. If I recall the B+ on those were around 550 volts.

 

[PeteL]

To me really, yes the safety issue and poor construction really is something to be flagged and is not acceptable, I agree with this, but really for the rest, well they advertise less than 1% distortion, it delivers that, they advertise 75 W it deliver that in short burst, or when the music demand it, the max power is really for short transient not to be clipped. No music content will ever be continuously at max power cause then there would be no headroom. Bottom line, it can deliver it, they could of course be more specific, but well, it's not fraudulent. If to that there are many that think that it sounds good, it's hard to argue about that, 0.5% distortion is of course audible but it should not ruin the listening experience. I am not the one to say that if one think it sounds good , that he is wrong, all we can say is that it's not proven transparent. SNR is decent, there are doubt as well as it has been pointed in other products, not all, that the main hum maybe partly about Audio Precision floating ground that would not be present in a system. I insist on the "may" and "doubt", just saying it's been demonstrated in some edge cases. In the end, bad grounding, yes, bad amp, I think whatever rock one's boat. I have no interest in a product like this but I found all the this is fraud thing a bit much.

 

[solderdude]

The enclosure is not earthed. It is tied to mains neutral through a 5M resistor though.

The enclosure seems to be tied directly to lets call it 'common' or 'signal ground'. Not to safety ground. Those are 2 very different things.
The problem with tying something to mains neutral is that this is not guaranteed to be neutral and could easily become live.

 

[tomchr]

This what the older C-J amps used for output stage fuses, rated for 600 volts. If I recall the B+ on those were around 550 volts.

Those would be appropriate.

Tom

 

[traderitch]

I would say that it is your posts that have added very little to the conversation. ASR is one of the most professional and thought provoking forums on the web, and I get a lot out of all the different types of knowledge that many of the members here post in every review thread - sure, things go a little off topic now and again, but you have here a collection of folks who continue to amaze me with their level of knowledge of all things audio, and sometimes products of every manner.

You will find plenty of examples here of manufacturers responding to reviews, and by and large they respond very diplomatically and often engage privately with Amir to discuss ways that the products can be improved. I don’t remember too many cases of master distributors/dealers calling the testers childish names.

I don’t want to go so far as to call you a troll, but your passive aggressive posts make me wonder if you have some affiliation with the company or a related company and you are trying to do damage control.

We shall await the “corporate response” you mention. As a person who is involved in product marketing, compliance and lifecycle management, I am very interested to see how Carver (the company that actually makes these) responds.

Scott,

I recently joined the site and have not had the time to review all of the topics.
There are a few which I plan on contributing to.

I join sites such as this and others (DIY AK etc) to ask questions and learn from others with similar interests.
Other people documenting mistakes they have made can help one from repeating them. (Schematics with incorrect polarities,
service bulletins that were issued that I was not aware of, etc...)

Inferring that I am a troll is insulting.

Referring to my posts as passive aggressive is inaccurate and unfair. I am a very direct person, almost to a fault.

I am one of the few people (with a recent exception) that owns the gear being discussed.
I have asked questions of those who are technically inclined. I have refrained from responding to
those that I referred to as snipers. I have witnessed the results of trying to refute ignorant statements
by those with no applicable knowledge or skin in the game and it is counter productive.
(If this sentence is an example of being passive aggressive, you are overly sensitive and should not read my posts)

I said it in another post and I will repeat it: Everyone is entitled to their opinion and I hope I am allowed to have mine.

 

[L0rdGwyn]

I find it curious that the fuses are labeled 1A and 3A but the text below them states to use fuses with the same ratings. I also wonder if the fuse labeled B+ Fuse (the 1A one) is actually connected to the B+. If it is, I hope the fuse holder (and the fuse) are rated for use at that voltage.

Tom

I wondered the same, the manual makes no mention of the voltage rating of the 1A fuse, whereas the 3A is rated for mains voltage. The 1A fuse is referred to as a "cathode fuse" in the manual, but is labeled "B+ fuse" on the chassis. Clearly it is the latter based on the schematic (included in the manual), it immediately follows the reservoir cap at 685VDC.

This what the older C-J amps used for output stage fuses, rated for 600 volts. If I recall the B+ on those were around 550 volts.

I use these in my fixed bias power amplifiers. They work well but are pricey. For fusing mains transformer HV secondaries, I like the TDC10 series from Eaton.

https://www.eaton.com/content/dam/eaton/products/electronic-components/resources/data-sheet/eaton-tdc10-tdc11-time-delay-glass-tube-fuses-data-sheet.pdf

 

[traderitch]

My observation is that one constant here has been your non-stop complaining about what others here are saying. You said your piece: the amp sounds fine to you and it doesn't matter to you how it measures. Good. Everything else is your picking at others for what they have to say, most of which has nothing to do with you except when you hassle them for saying it.

Greg P,

I really don't understand what you trying to convey?
Anything I respond to is directly related to the fact that I own a CF275 and the Crimson 350's.
I have a vested interest in the safety concerns expressed in the review and by some of the more technical contributors.

 

[jbhiller]

I have contacted Frank Malitz seeking an explanation on the lack of a proper chassis ground and an on whether the 15w Edcor OPTs in my unit were spec'd by Bob Carver himself. Let's see..

It is interesting that I cannot seem to find an active corporation listing on Washington Secretary of State or Illinois (where Malitz lives). The company could be registered anywhere.

 

[pkane]

I said it in another post and I will repeat it: Everyone is entitled to their opinion and I hope I am allowed to have mine.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but you’re not entitled to keep telling others what they should or shouldn’t post, nor how they should express their own opinion.

 

[L0rdGwyn]

I think the most elegant resolution to this debacle would be for Carver Corp. to issue a recall to properly ground the chassis for existing owners and refit the amplifiers with appropriately rated mains and output transformers. But given the cost of making that happen, both monetary and from a public relations standpoint, it seems unlikely that will happen. In this happy ending, Bob Carver would also come forward and reveal that the amplifier was not manufactured to his original specification and the design was cheapened.

 

[traderitch]

I modified the unit so I haven't asked the dealer. Nonetheless, I would think anyone would be entitled to a refund given the misrepresentations and the safety issue presented by the lack of chassis ground.

You can call the emotion side of my post what you want. I think it is sad because Bob Carver is an important figure in the hifi field. I like him. Maybe, and I'm speculating, Bob (like Mark Levinson and others) once again sold his name and the results may not be in keeping with the original intent and design of Bob Carver. I think it is also sad from the misrepresentations and build quality perspective. Consumers should not have to have electrical experience or a degree to perform their due diligence on an amp they want to purchase. This, in 2022, by an American company, for a product made in America, with Bob Carver's name on the product--to me (and you may dislike my subjectivity)--is just plan sad.

The process of opening up the unit had and has never had a change on an amplifier's sound--except for a limited experience of mine where a wire was caught and shorting on something I opened up in the 1990s, whereby the signal was restored.

I agree with most of what you stated in your response. I too would speculate that the org chart has changed from the time the first unit was produced to the most recent. Questions of safety are of particular interest to me.

Many of those who reply to my posts are missing context. My unit is a CF275, not a production unit.
The little sniper digs about "getting conned, you wasted your money" are just not accurate. Not only that,
but I assume they are unwelcome by people in your position.

 

[Thermionics]

Indeed! Here's an example:

View attachment 179721​

That looks like a Magnavox preamp / tuner (based on the Molex connector in the upper right-hand corner. Those are a nightmare to work on, but given that all the wires / leads are twisted through the tag strips before soldering, stuff is *not* moving about, so little risk of a dead short to chassis. Anything that could possibly move (like that 39k carbon comp right in the middle) or possibly carrying B+ has tubing over the leads.

 

[sarumbear]

It is interesting that I cannot seem to find an active corporation listing on Washington Secretary of State or Illinois (where Malitz lives). The company could be registered anywhere.

According to Google they operate from a flower shop

Bob Carver

www.google.co.uk