Comparing my three XLR cables from DAC to amp

[andersee]

I have Topping D90 MQA and Topping A90, together with Hifiman Ananda. So, I wanted to have a good enough (but not expensive) XLR cables to connect D90 and A90.
- First, I ordered one from Markertek. (Canare's premier L-4E6S Star-Quad cable) https://www.markertek.com/product/s...in-xlr-male-to-3-pin-xlr-female-gray-1-5-foot
- Since the delivery time was long at that time, I bought another from Monoprice. (Again, Star-Quad.) Stage Right by Monoprice STARQUAD XLR Microphone Cable, Optimized for Analog Audio - 24AWG

When comparing the two, I was surprised by how different the two XLR's sound.
- I became curious, and so, googled to buy another one by WBC. (This time, Mogami 2549) https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B0979LF3Y6/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Before expressing what I found in more detail, FYI,
- I majored in Physics, and I am an engineer. So, I think I roughly understand the articles in ASR and in other sites on the basics of XLR cables in room environment with short distance (<10 ft). In my case, the length of all three cables was 1.5ft. So, I think, in principle, the three cables should not show noticeable difference in sound.

Stilllllll, I can't but say that the sounds from the cables are different. I really don't understand why, thought.

- WBC one became my baseline since the frequency balance is the best among them, and still, treble is accurate and not confined.
- I love the airy and clear treble by Monoprice Stage Right. The sound by female vocal or by guitar picking is fantastic. (Celine Dion, Michael Jackson, Acoustic Alchemy, Dave Grusin, etc) But.. it lacks kicking in the bass.

I ended up spending ~$100, but it was a fun comparison.
I am still curious why they sound so different.

 

[Blumlein 88]

I have to ask, did you determine all this with uncontrolled sighted listening?

 

[vco1]

I am still curious why they sound so different.

Because your mind is playing tricks on you.

Sidenote: never read a discussion that vocals sounded completely different by using a different microphone cable in the studio. This fixation on cables seems to be an 'audiophile' thing only.

 

[andersee]

- I did not have anyone to help me on the test, so it's up to you whether you believe or not. But, I can say the cables sound different.
- For any song, I listen one song for 30~45 seconds and shift the cables to listen to the same phrase. I do it multiple times for the same phrase.

 

[tw99]

- I did not have anyone to help me on the test, so it's up to you whether you believe or not. But, I can say the cables sound different.
- For any song, I listen one song for 30~45 seconds and shift the cables to listen to the same phrase. I do it multiple times for the same phrase.

I can certainly believe you heard a difference, but not one made by the cables.

 

[Chrispy]

Maybe get someone to help you do the test blinded....

 

[escksu]

You posted at the wrong forum.... ASR is the worst forum to talk about cables.

You should post in other forums if you want to have any meaningful discussion about cables.

 

[voodooless]

You should post in other forums if you want to have any meaningful discussion about cables.

Meaningful? Just as meaningful as a homoeopathy forum I guess...

 

[escksu]

Meaningful? Just as meaningful as a homoeopathy forum I guess...

Not starting any cable debate/discusison, so pls no.

 

[Blumlein 88]

I personally have the same experience with cables many times. I also can assure as soon you get someone to swap them for you the differences disappear. The reason is your brain creates the differences which don't actually exist in the cables or the physical sound. It's just something the human brain will do.

 

[KSTR]

I am still curious why they sound so different.

As others have noted, you did not have the necessary controls in your test to attribute the perceived difference to an actual signal change vs just a change of perception from whatever biases.
This does not mean a signal change is impossible to happen but without taking away sighted biases you simply cannot know. The chances are very low, though, that the cables really altered the signal enough to make it audible. When it is the case (after a DBT assertion that there is most likely a true technical change) then difference can easily be measured, which then would be the next step.

 

[Holmz]

- I did not have anyone to help me on the test, so it's up to you whether you believe or not. But, I can say the cables sound different.
- For any song, I listen one song for 30~45 seconds and shift the cables to listen to the same phrase. I do it multiple times for the same phrase.

I would try and get someone to help make it blind.

…

When comparing the two, I was surprised by how different the two XLR's sound !
- I became curious, and so, googled to buy another one by WBC. (This time, Mogami 2549) https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B0979LF3Y6/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

…

- WBC one became my baseline since the frequency balance is the best among them, and still, treble is accurate and not confined.
- I really love the airy and clear treble by Monoprice Stage Right. The sound by female vocal or by guitar picking is really fantastic, much better than the WBC. (Celine Dion, Michael Jackson, Acoustic Alchemy, Dave Grusin, etc) But.. it lacks kicking in the bass. Quite tamed bass.
- As I want at least decent tremble, Markertek one is not used often as its tremble is too mild and the transient is somewhat slow.

…
I am still curious why they sound so different.

If the cables have different capacitance or inductance, then it would form a filter.
The output impedance also plays a role here, as does the input impedance of the amp.
(the D90 says 100 ohms output impedance and the A90 does not list input impedance… 100 ohms is nice and low)

I also use Magomi 2549, and they have published specs for their raw cables. But the Canare is also well regarded, and they also have specs.

If you wanted to, you could also make them using the Neutrik connectors.


Instead of a DBT, perhaps you could run the A90 into a sound card input and use something like REW to capture the spectra with the different cables.
Maybe using pink noise, and a low level.
If those spectra are different, then that would confirm that you indeed heard a difference.

Without some proof, many will discount the observation as hearsay.

 

[voodooless]

I'd like to credit @solderdude for his anecdote for showing how our brains can be fooled.

 

[litemotiv]

I also use Magomi 2549, and they have published specs for their raw cables. But the Canare is also well regarded, and they also have specs.

If you wanted to, you could also make them using the Neutrik connectors.

But quad cables should have no practical / audible benefit for these really short lengths in home environments without much interference. And Neutrik connectors are all about durability in live/stage environments but also have no practical benefit for sound quality.

 

[Holmz]

But quad cables should have no practical / audible benefit for these really short lengths in home environments without much interference. And Neutrik connectors are all about durability in live/stage environments but also have no practical benefit for sound quality.

I totally agree.
I was only offering some ideas for how such a difference could occur and how to determining if it did.

I don’t hear the cables, but maybe my system is not revolving enough?

 

[tvrgeek]

Anytime you hear something, we have a contingent who will claim you can't. They make an absolute judgement if they can't, you can't and will sing the lack of 100 person double blind ABX testing to be your fault so of course they are right. Righteous more like it.

Now, I am also an engineer as well as someone with ears. I can clearly hear differences in some DACs and in some amplifiers on some music. I find it highly unlikely there is a difference in the cables. All three are quality cable with sufficient shielding. I could possibly see measurable electrical differences between the star-quad and the WBC, but hard to imagine a difference in a short cable and a difference between two of the same construction. It IS all in your head, because all sound is in our head. Unfortunately, the level of equipment necessary to measure an difference may be way beyond our budget. There will be variance in the DC of the insulation, C and L. But tiny tiny. Even I suspect your brain is making up the differences.

 

[Jimbob54]

Well, I think we all know what happens next on this thread .....

 

[bloodshoteyed]

i've been here like this

for a few hours already

 

[solderdude]

But, I can say the cables sound different.

Please make 3 recordings (from the output of the amp) of the exact same song, same circumstances with only the cables as difference.
Record in 24/96 minimum quality.
Make the recordings available for download.
This way we can all hear and analyze what you are hearing.

 

[AudiOhm]

A couple of weeks ago I replaced my RCA cables from Processor to amp with Balanced cables.
At first I could not believe what I was hearing, clearer sound, more bass, better separation between the channels it was like a curtain was opened in front of my equipment.

2 weeks later I put my RCA cables back in, the sound was the same as the Balanced cables

The nice thing about the Balanced cables is the processor output is lower for the same volume,
and the connectors make a nice solid connection (mechanically coupled) to the amp and processor.

Maybe I will need one of my siblings to assist in some blind testing for me...
Equipment fully balanced: Anthem AVM 50 to Anthem MCA 225 Gen II.

Ohms