User_22
Member
- Joined
- Jan 2, 2022
- Messages
- 43
- Likes
- 14
If the Zone 2 source switch is as shown in the diagram, the signal to Zone 2 goes from the main DAC AK4458 or PCM1690. Maybe I'm wrong?Makes sense..
If the Zone 2 source switch is as shown in the diagram, the signal to Zone 2 goes from the main DAC AK4458 or PCM1690. Maybe I'm wrong?Makes sense..
Nope, using always PCM5100, because the above one when SubWoofer is used, only together with main zone. Z2 not sw compatibe, thus the AKM DAC cannot decode seimultaneously different streams in case of you want to hear different music on Z2. New PCM dac so don't. The amirm measurements definitely show the output of 5100, check it's datasheet, the measured rolloff, SINAD, THD, etc... e.g. copy-paste.If the Zone 2 source switch is as shown in the diagram, the signal to Zone 2 goes from the main DAC AK4458 or PCM1690. Maybe I'm wrong?
IMHO there are probably some requirements from Dolby, DTS, Atmos, etc... brands for AVRs regarding to THD, SINAD to be able to use their stamps on the amplifier. No such ones for stereo receiver, so they simple degraded the PA stageExactly my point, that they would maximum their profit margins in their two channel receivers and integrated amps because they know many people think that AVRs have poorer "sound quality", compared to even the lower to midrange two channel receivers and integrated amps.
When zone 2 is turned on the source we have the same signal in zone 2 and main zone.Z2 not sw compatibe, thus the AKM DAC cannot decode seimultaneously different streams in case of you want to hear different music on Z2.
Right. The PLD sending the same digital stream to both DACs, not the analog output switched.When zone 2 is turned on the source we have the same signal in zone 2 and main zone.
How can this be checked in the service manual? In either case, the signal passes through analog switches and regulators.The PLD sending the same digital stream to both DACs, not the analog output switched.
Check the audio paths definition pages, no such one showed when the main DAC feeds the Z2. PCM5100 "output patterns" on Z2 also evident from amirm measurements, said many times here.How can this be checked in the service manual?
You want to say that the switch inside the NJU72343V is always in the lower position? Why is that switch in the top position in my picture?Check the audio paths definition pages, no such one showed when the main DAC feeds the Z2. PCM5100 "output patterns" on Z2 also evident from amirm measurements, said many times here.
You want to say that the switch inside the NJU72343V is always in the lower position? Why is that switch in the top position in my picture
Did you read all pages of SM? Found any other pic when it is on down position? Can you see the red lines by Denon showing the real audio paths for different configurations on SM pages? Can you imagine when the two DACs playing different music on Z1 and Z2 using HEOS? If the above questions all answered yourself, you will find the answer.You want to say that the switch inside the NJU72343V is always in the lower position? Why is that switch in the top position in my picture?
If the above questions all answered yourself, you will find the answer.
A remaining question is how one causes the DRA-800H to utilize the AKM4458 (or PCM1690 in revision) for Zone 2, rather than one of the two PCM5100.
Thanks for the nice post. To understand your opinion better, would you please also post Figures A03a and A03b that are referred to in your table? Much appreciate your interest.To: ttt
We see one answer in the table above that explains your picture from service manual. In the service manual, one PCM5100A is named NETWORK DAC (Z2) and the other is DOWNMIX DAC. The name is fit for purpose. I think only those digital signals that are not dependent on the MAIN ZONE go through the PCM5100A.
To: SoundsGood64
In my opinion, digital signals go to the ZONE 2 output when the ZONE 2 is set to the SOURCE . Then the same signal is in the amplifier and ZONE 2 output. Well if DENON has a specific purpose to degrade performance then it is different .
Underlined only A03b, the corresponding image is post No: 182To understand your opinion better, would you please also post Figures A03a and A03b that are referred to in your table? Much appreciate your interest.
I'm certain there's someone with more expertise on this than me, but no one else has yet commented, so here's an initial attempt.Hello all
With my dra-800h, i always stream music from my smartphone with heos because for some reason i dont understand the sound it's much better than using the simple bluetooth connection... that could show the difference of dac output ?
Yep i think you're right, heos should use à lossless way. Bluetooth is Ok and usefull but often crapy way for the soundI'm certain there's someone with more expertise on this than me, but no one else has yet commented, so here's an initial attempt.
First, whether you are using bluetooth or HEOS, I'd think you'd be using the same DAC. Probably both HEOS and an incoming bluetooth signal would come in via the same network module which would then connect with one of the three DACS (Main Zone, Z2 Downmix, or Z2 Network). In fact because bluetooth and HEOS use the same network module, this probably means that you can cannot listen to bluetooth in one zone, and HEOS in another.
Second, I believe the key difference between an incoming bluetooth and an incoming HEOS signal is that for bluetooth you might have a lossy codec. Say on your smartphone or tablet you are playing a lossless flac file (or lossless streaming from provider). Going through HEOS will be going through your local WiFi network and will be lossless. Going through bluetooth there is a direct radio connection between your smartphone and the DRA-800H, and you could be using a lossy codec for that transmission.
Considering that Denon started to replace the AKM AK4458 DAC IC in X4700H and X6700H in spring 2021 and that the DRA-800H unit Amir tested was shipped by Amazon in late September 2021 it is quite likely it already had the PCM1690 DAC (I guess Denon started to "downgrade" the less premium models and later moved on to the more expensive ones).Some further comments....
...
Comment 2
For the DRA-800H that amirm did the measurement on, I now wonder whether for the Main Zone DAC it had AKM4458 or the PCM1690 revision. Further, I wonder what the exact settings he used to obtain output from the Zone 2 pre-out.
.......
Any thoughts on any of these comments? Corrections with rationale are very welcome.
The PCM1690 has -94dB THD+N (~sinad) in normal mode, in dual-differential it is better with 3dB, so -97dB. The PCM5100 has -90dB, amirm measured -86dB on Z2, it is better correlate to 5100. There is only the analog switch + some opamp between it if we assume the main DAC used on Z2.Considering that Denon started to replace the AKM AK4458 DAC IC in X4700H and X6700H in spring 2021 and that the DRA-800H unit Amir tested was shipped by Amazon in late September 2021 it is quite likely it already had the PCM1690 DAC (I guess Denon started to "downgrade" the less premium models and later moved on to the more expensive ones).
I checked the signal going, thanks for the idea.Anyway, I continue to assume, the Z2 output never fed from main DAC.
However, it is software based configuration via the volume chip, the truth is in the firmware, so only an engineer could answer it precisely. Or, disasssemble the amp and simple shunt the output of PCM5100 and see Z2 still has signal.