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Revel Concerta2 C25 Review (Center Speaker)

Rate this speaker:

  • 1. Poor (headless panther)

    Votes: 19 10.5%
  • 2. Not terrible (postman panther)

    Votes: 52 28.7%
  • 3. Fine (happy panther)

    Votes: 90 49.7%
  • 4. Great (golfing panther)

    Votes: 20 11.0%

  • Total voters
    181

pseudoid

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You are not going to use a center channel without a subwoofer or at least full range fronts, don't you?
The stereo sound experience can be created pretty well with a R and L source:
Yikes, me thinks you simply do not like the home theatre experience.
As a person with zero interest in HT I'm thinking that two of these, with a sub, can make a superb stereo setup for a fraction the cost of a true Revel full ranges.
I think there are just a few centers that will please anyone, without compromises. Especially, if the center is used without some sort of EQ.
For some, the correct EQ management of >5.1 speaker systems; for very different types of movies (with a variety of employed audio recording/encoding techniques) are too cumbersome
For some others, spending more for a pair of "full-range" floor-standing speakers is a much better option
Yet, for some others, even adding a sub to a good L/R seems counter-intuitive
And then, we have those who would rather forego the luxury of that "immersive" movie experience and select just a simple setup of "musical" enjoyment.
Two-channel quality music coming out of a simple quality audio system makes me one of those "other people".
But I also never skimp on my video displays/monitors; having never owned a TV that was an LCD.
...so what use is the SinC interpolation of what comes afterwards?...
I saw the ringing in the impulse graph and first two things (guesses) that came to mind were either *the AP was being slew-rate limited or that *the AP source is up against a wild reactive-load, probably capacitive... ??
Happy New Year, y'awl!
 

Head_Unit

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Best centerspeaker design may be coaxial.. surround systems send all sub-100Hz to the sub/main speakers so closed center designs make sense to me. It is very interesting to see that Amir adds the ‘WA-TuneTot’ pseudo-bass bump at 115 Hz and it adds to the perceived quality of sound.
Yeah, coaxial! Or 3-way. Though depending on tuning you could get below 100Hz, 80 Hz is like a default crossover. The Focal CC900 in one of my systems is ported all the way down at 40Hz; Audyssey treats it as "large." But I'd rather have sealed than something tuned to like 70 Hz.
 

Bear123

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Here is the current setup in my room. (Forgive the lack of decor--that just isn't my thing.)

View attachment 175789

View attachment 175790

And here is what Audyssey measured, with bass crossing the 0 line at ~82Hz:

View attachment 175788

The AVR's recommended crossover was 60Hz. IIRC, I liked it better at 90Hz, and going higher did not yield audibly better results in male voices.

View attachment 175795

My current crossover settings are 80, 90, 90, 90. Fronts were forced to small.
I suspect better sub placement would help significantly. Have you tried front left corner and rear right corner? Symmetrical front stage placement(for looks I assume?) is not giving you any benefit of dual subs other than a bit more output.
 

Bear123

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I had this center channel and sold it. Replaced it with Infinity RC263 for $149. The C25 does have lower distortion as measured in my room, but only up to the point where the C25 runs out of capability. The RC263 will play louder with less distortion past the point where the C25 gives out. Off axis response in room is also notably better than the C25. The C25 played low enough in room to cross comfortably to subs in the 80-100 Hz region but the RC263 does better here as well. As is the case with electronics(such as AVR's with 80-90 dB SINAD), this distortion is inaudible in real life, until output capability is exceeded. In other words, the RC263 sounds better at all volume levels even though distortion is not as low at low to moderate volume due to its superior off axis response. It's also why I don't worry about improving the SINAD from my AVR….its already inaudible in real life other than in anyone's imagination.
 

617

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I was very curious about this model since Revel is known for careful directivity matching, and I was curious as to whether the sideways waveguide would do anything to help the intrinsic problems with a horizontal speaker array being asked to create a wide angle of coverage. I knew it wasn't going to be amazing, but I see nothing here much better than other sideways MTM designs.

I'm calling this a poor design. True to Revel's standards, it has low distortion, a logically chosen bass roll-off frequency, and a good in-room response, but the job of the CC is wide coverage and treble intelligibility and this just doesn't deliver.

Revel makes amazing center channel speakers (3 ways) but I'm starting to think only coaxials can deliver good performance in a small CC speaker, and Revel doesn't make coaxials - really the only viable domestic ones I've seen are the KEFs- the Elacs are ok but worse than their non coax offerings.

Very interesting review and should hopefully illustrate the immense compromise that comes with horizontally arrayed woofers.
 

voodooless

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Once again a crappy implementation.. we should not encourage this, so if with it’s head :facepalm:
 

Laniciffo

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Considering how much emphasis is put on the enclosure finish, I suppose the symmetrical design is now an installed looks requirement, consumer-wise.
I wonder if a simple solution to satisfy both this cosmetic req and a wider area response could be to make these speakers 3-way instead of 2.
The mid-range and woofer would have to be the same diameter though. Is that a problem from the pure performance pov?
 

Laniciffo

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I just looked at the current Revel range of center channel speakers.
There are 3-way models, but they all have at least 4 speakers, as if they did insist on keeping the symmetry of the largest drivers.

These 3-way designs have a single mid-range though.
=> Do you expect to get improved directivity results if the self-cancelling of audio waves is limited to low frequencies?
 

617

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I just looked at the current Revel range of center channel speakers.
There are 3-way models, but they all have at least 4 speakers, as if they did insist on keeping the symmetry of the largest drivers.

These 3-way designs have a single mid-range though.
=> Do you expect to get improved directivity results if the self-cancelling of audio waves is limited to low frequencies?
Yes, that's the basic idea. The less treble the woofers are reproducing, the better. Unfortunately this means that more bass and mid bass gets offloaded onto the midrange unit, which due to the small size of the speaker, tends to be quite small. This can lead to high distortion. The horizontal format is never optimal. A coaxial driver helps immensely, however. I'm thinking a KEF ls50 would be an excellent center channel if it can go loud enough for you.
 

Vladimir Filevski

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It is very interesting to see that Amir adds the ‘WA-TuneTot’ pseudo-bass bump at 115 Hz and it adds to the perceived quality of sound.
Well, no. C25 is 4dB down at 100Hz, and EQ is +4dB at 100Hz - making it flat all way down to 100Hz.
TuneTot has peak at 115Hz which downgrades its sound quality.
 

Steve Dallas

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I suspect better sub placement would help significantly. Have you tried front left corner and rear right corner? Symmetrical front stage placement(for looks I assume?) is not giving you any benefit of dual subs other than a bit more output.

My placement actually works pretty well in my room. I tried several locations, and this produces good results and somehow passes the WAF test.

This is the front left measured with both subs running, crossed at 80Hz. Right and stereo measurements are similar.

MMM Media Room Left F206 SB2000 Bass Frequencies 180.png


I had this center channel and sold it. Replaced it with Infinity RC263 for $149. The C25 does have lower distortion as measured in my room, but only up to the point where the C25 runs out of capability. The RC263 will play louder with less distortion past the point where the C25 gives out. Off axis response in room is also notably better than the C25. The C25 played low enough in room to cross comfortably to subs in the 80-100 Hz region but the RC263 does better here as well. As is the case with electronics(such as AVR's with 80-90 dB SINAD), this distortion is inaudible in real life, until output capability is exceeded. In other words, the RC263 sounds better at all volume levels even though distortion is not as low at low to moderate volume due to its superior off axis response. It's also why I don't worry about improving the SINAD from my AVR….its already inaudible in real life other than in anyone's imagination.

The Infinity is a better measuring speaker in some regards to be sure, but I am space limited and stuck with something near the C25's form factor.

I keep wanting to "upgrade" to the C205 to have a matching front set, but I imagine the improvement would be only cosmetic.
 
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Spkrdctr

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My placement actually works pretty well in my room. I tried several locations, and this produces good results and somehow passes the WAF test.

This is the front left measured with both subs running, crossed at 80Hz. Right and stereo measurements are similar.

View attachment 175926



The Infinity is a better measuring speaker to be sure, but I am space limited and stuck with something near the C25's form factor.

I keep wanting to "upgrade" to the C205 to have a matching front set, but I imagine the improvement would be only cosmetic.
Great in room performance!
 
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Steve Dallas

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I wonder what you would think if you took the center and set it on end on the floor leaning it back against the red entertainment center so the tweeter pretty much pointed at your face in your listening position. Can you give it a try and report back? Enquiring minds want to know. I know it will look different but if it gives you better sound and wider seating positions it would be interesting to know. In my opinion this stood on end seems like the best center channel I have seen on here in a long time. The hump Amir was EQing out was I think only 2db. In home theater that is nothing, you would never notice it. If this speaker went on sale in the back of a white van at Walmart for $399 it would be a steal.
I do not really want to upset things enough to move the speaker, but I could be persuaded to take some sweeps at the 3 listening positions across the sofa for comparison. We make a lot about the narrow range of horizontal MTM designs on this site, but we do not spend much time discussing how much it matters to average people.

My son (9 years) bounces around in his seat throughout any given movie, and my wife starts trending toward 45 degrees uprightness within the first half hour. Both are just as happy with iPad speakers. Neither cares about this stuff at all. Since I get the center seat, I am not sure why I should care either.

@Bear123 has already done what I am proposing to do in measuring this speaker, and his results show a significant loss of energy in the 1K to 3K region, which is an area of high sensitivity in human hearing. Some female voice barely falls in this range, so it may be detrimental to center channel performance.

Comparing my results to his could be interesting, so I will try to find the time to do it this weekend.
 
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Rottmannash

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My placement actually works pretty well in my room. I tried several locations, and this produces good results and somehow passes the WAF test.

This is the front left measured with both subs running, crossed at 80Hz. Right and stereo measurements are similar.

View attachment 175926



The Infinity is a better measuring speaker in some regards to be sure, but I am space limited and stuck with something near the C25's form factor.

I keep wanting to "upgrade" to the C205 to have a matching front set, but I imagine the improvement would be only cosmetic.
I bought the RC263 and it was so large, especially its height I had to cram it into the space under the tv shelf and the shelf below-I may never get it back out! Due to this it is slightly fwd of the F208's so that sucks but I suppose the AVR fixes that issue (somewhat). It does sound good and it was an improvement over my old Polk CS400I. It gets louder and voices in particular are much more articulate.
 

pseudoid

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Thanks go out to @amirm for all his exhaustive testing for DACs and amps that has enlightened us all about which brands just 'work' and test correctly. More and more, it appears that the SMSL brand is doing everything right and coming out with an assortment of hardware worth their costs.
In testing speakers, @amirm has also shown us that Revel is way up there in performance, similar to SMSL but at a higher price/performance class.
My question still stands:
Is there such a thing as a brand/manufacturer of a "center" speaker that is worth its salt; without all of the compromises that seem to be getting in the way.
Uninitiated consumers may expect some sort of 'out-of-the-box' performance (as they would from [ummmm....] an SMSL) but do NOT realize that no such center-speaker really exists (IMHO).
 

sarumbear

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Is there such a thing as a brand/manufacturer of a "center" speaker that is worth its salt; without all of the compromises that seem to be getting in the way.
Have no idea if they are good otherwise but there are lots of centre speakers that have the correct topology. It’s only when the height must be extremely short that a centre speaker designs are constrained. An extra inch or two height is all it’s needed.



 

HiFidFan

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Given its use case, the horizontal directivity of this speaker is a fail. "Poor" rating.
 
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