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Hometheater setup - help needed pls

warrior047

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Hello all,
Really need your valuable suggestions. I have always been someone who wanted great sound per my capacity. I used Edifier, Swans and then shifted to JBL Soundbar which am using. Am from Hyderabad, India.

Now i want to venture into proper Home theater audio. Am really confused with so many options. I am from hyderabad and dont know much dealers. But the shops i visit always suggest regular satellite speakers. But i want more quality with right sound profile experience. Some dealers suggesting Monitor audio and

Based on my study, I feel like i dont need to put in more money for the below room size. Its a straight hall and TV, speakers should fit in the first half of the room only.
But i need your suggestions pls. I want a future proof amplifier and hence looking towards Denon X2700H or Marantz SR5015 or SR6015 based on best prices. Not sure if its too much high considering the room size.

Hall_Pic.JPG


Am planning below for the straight hall though the speakers fit in the first half of the room itself i.e., Drawing room above. Need your recommendation guys.

left and right fronts - Dali oberon 3/Kef Q350/Wharfedale Diamond 12.2/Martin logan Motion 15i
- Am also interested in On wall speakers like KEF 301 series or Martin logan Motion SLM series (not XL)
Center - Dali oberon vokal/Kef Q650/martin logan motion 30i/Motion SLM/KEF 301C
2 Surrounds - Kef T101/Dali oberon on Wall/Martion logan Motion SLM?
2 Ceiling Atmos - Polk Audio RC80/KEF Ci130ER/Q Acoustics QI65C
Subwoofer - SVS Sb-1000 Pro/Martin logan Dynamo 800x/REL Acoustics HT/1003/REL Acoustics HT/1205
AVR - Denon X2700H/X3700H, Marantz SR6015/5015 (Dont want to change AVR anytime in near future)

Kindly help guys. Budget including AV Receiver would be 3 lakh INR. I might in future add few more speakers but not in the near while.
 

Webninja

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Check out the reviews of speakers here. Lots of great speakers at all price levels.

I suggest a Denon x3700h, which is the least expensive new AVR that gets you the best room correction that Denon offers.

I’d plan on 2 subwoofers and bookshelf speakers are fine if that gives you better placement. I don’t think most on-wall would be recommended for fronts and center, but can work for surround.
 

sweetchaos

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Welcome to ASR.
I'll tackle some of your questions.
AVR - Denon X2700H/X3700H, Marantz SR6015/5015 (Dont want to change AVR anytime in near future)
Get the X3700H since it has Audyssey multeq xt32, which is a much better room correction system than the previous XT (see thread).
Also, Amir reviewed it, and it's a good performer, without any major faults.

Amir reviewed the SR6014 (previous gen), and it was a questionable performer. Amir also reviewed the higher model SR8015 was a good performer.
As we've seen with lots of electronics, unless Amir measured the same model, we really can't tell how well it was designed or if there's any major flaws, which is why I'll point you back to X3700H.

Subwoofer - SVS Sb-1000 Pro/Martin logan Dynamo 800x/REL Acoustics HT/1003/REL Acoustics HT/1205
From these 4 options, the best performer is the SB-1000 Pro, which is visible in the table below.
1640890058356.png

To help you find other subs, look at my 'subwoofer comparison' spreadsheet.

Dali oberon 3/Kef Q350/Wharfedale Diamond 12.2/Martin logan Motion 15i
We don't have spinorama for Dali Oberon 3, but we do for Dali Spektor 1:
Preference Score is 3.2 and would be 5.8 with a perfect subwoofer.

CEA2034.jpg

There's many better speakers than these, honestly.

Wharfedale Diamond 12.1 was measured by Amir (and recommended):
CEA2034.jpg

Preference Score is 5.4 and would be 7.7 with a perfect subwoofer.
This looks much better than Dali's.
Diamond 12.2 (with 6.5" woofer) will be slightly better than Diamond 12.1 (5" woofer), so excellent choice.

MartinLogan Motion 4i was measured by Amir and was NOT recommended:
CEA2034.jpg

Preference Score is 1.5 and would be 5.1 with a perfect subwoofer.
Absolutely no bass.

Also, MartinLogan 35XTi was measured by Audioholics:
CEA2034.jpg

Doesnt look good.

Center - Dali oberon vokal/Kef Q650/martin logan motion 30i/Motion SLM/KEF 301C
I wouldn't get any 2-way center channels, which have major off-axis horizontal directivity problems beyond +-10degrees.
Only look at 3-way coaxial or traditional 3-way center channels.
Which means Kef Q650C is my pick.

Other picks are 2-way, so not recommended.
Kef T301C was measured by Amir and it was a questionable performer.
Preference Score is -0.7 and would be 3.5 with a perfect subwoofer.

CEA2034.jpg


Let me know if you have further questions.
 

Doodski

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Welcome to ASR.
I'll tackle some of your questions.

Get the X3700H since it has Audyssey multeq xt32, which is a much better room correction system than the previous XT (see thread).
Also, Amir reviewed it, and it's a good performer, without any major faults.

Amir reviewed the SR6014 (previous gen), and it was a questionable performer. Amir also reviewed the higher model SR8015 was a good performer.
As we've seen with lots of electronics, unless Amir measured the same model, we really can't tell how well it was designed or if there's any major flaws, which is why I'll point you back to X3700H.


From these 4 options, the best performer is the SB-1000 Pro, which is visible in the table below.
View attachment 175598
To help you find other subs, look at my 'subwoofer comparison' spreadsheet.


We don't have spinorama for Dali Oberon 3, but we do for Dali Spektor 1:
Preference Score is 3.2 and would be 5.8 with a perfect subwoofer.

CEA2034.jpg

There's many better speakers than these, honestly.

Wharfedale Diamond 12.1 was measured by Amir (and recommended):
CEA2034.jpg

Preference Score is 5.4 and would be 7.7 with a perfect subwoofer.
This looks much better than Dali's.
Diamond 12.2 (with 6.5" woofer) will be slightly better than Diamond 12.1 (5" woofer), so excellent choice.

MartinLogan Motion 4i was measured by Amir and was NOT recommended:
CEA2034.jpg

Preference Score is 1.5 and would be 5.1 with a perfect subwoofer.
Absolutely no bass.

Also, MartinLogan 35XTi was measured by Audioholics:
CEA2034.jpg

Doesnt look good.


I wouldn't get any 2-way center channels, which have major off-axis horizontal directivity problems beyond +-10degrees.
Only look at 3-way coaxial or traditional 3-way center channels.
Which means Kef Q650C is my pick.

Other picks are 2-way, so not recommended.
Kef T301C was measured by Amir and it was a questionable performer.
Preference Score is -0.7 and would be 3.5 with a perfect subwoofer.

CEA2034.jpg


Let me know if you have further questions.
I worked professionally in AV home audio selling gear and repairing for 24 years in total and I've never seen such devotion to the home audio information as comes from you! If you keep this up you might be able to make a career of it. :D
 

sweetchaos

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I worked professionally in AV home audio selling gear and repairing for 24 years in total and I've never seen such devotion to the home audio information as comes from you! If you keep this up you might be able to make a career of it. :D
:eek::D:cool:

It's just a hobby. I work in a completely different field.
 

Webninja

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I feel like I’ve never had a better home theater and it’s thanks to this forum. Nice to pass on the knowledge to people asking for assistance.

I used @sweetchaos sub list to pick a sub and all of Amir’s reviews for my AVR and speakers. Could have saved a bunch if I knew all this before, but I had a fun audio journey and now I’m enjoying fine tuning my system.
 

radix

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As an FYI, you can wall-mount the Q350. I used these brackets. It's a little beyond the stated depth, but it works OK. Of course, they need to be mounted directly on a wall stud. I plug the rear port to keep the bass response balanced. I also cross them over at 60Hz or 80 Hz (don't remember offhand) and put the rest into the sub. I use an Inkognito 10 wall mount under the TV, so it's pretty flush with the wall. My setup is actually R3/R2c LCR and Q350 rears plus subs.

Based on Amir's review, I'd skip the T301 unless you really want a flat speaker. Focal has some new flush wall mounts, but I've not seen a technical review of them.
 
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warrior047

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Thanks for the recommendation. I have 3 questions.
1. I wanted to spend similarly w.r.to more amount on Center channel and Subwoofer. I wanted to balance out the budget as well. Hence i wanted to mix the speakers available like below
Kef Q350 for Fronts
Some good center speaker like Emotiva Airmotiv C1+ or KEF Q650 or Monitor Audio Silver C350 or something else
But got suggestions that we need to stick to same company speakers for Fronts and Center to match the tone. But this is narrowing me down due to availability in my area. Few folks sell only KEF and few only Emotiva or Martin Logan
2. My subwoofer might sit somewhere in the center or first half corner of the Hall as you can see, beside the TV. Hence i wanted to go for a sealed sub considering the space and also i didnt want the flat to rumble and create angry neighbours. Pls suggest if i can overcome the sound effects of PB-1000 pro. Else i would go for either SB-1000 pro or Dynamo 800x.
3. Also can i go for flat speakers like On-wall for Fronts and surrounds like KEF T301 and T101, and go for a KEF 650 in the center?? I dont know if i can wall mount the bookshelves considering their port is behind. And i have a 2 yr old kid who would simply put down the speakers if they are only on stands.

I understand that KEF Flat ones are no match for Bookshelves but i wanted a balance output for surrouds at-least by investing more on my choice of sub and center speaker.
 

Webninja

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1. Yes to matching the three fronts. And if you have to wall mount due to living situation, I would still go for that over in wall. @radix had good suggestions

2. Subwoofers can be hard to predict as they are very influenced by room and position. With the Denon AVR, and Audyssey you should be able to adjust the levels to your preference, so the SVS sub (or any well rated sub) should do well. Ideally it’s better to get 2 subs to even out lower frequencies, but home theater in most dwellings is all about compromise.

3. There are bookshelf stands with more secure attachments, but I’m not sure what’s available in your country. I still would recommend the most budget spent on the front three speakers and that they be the same brand.
 

radix

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Thanks for the recommendation. I have 3 questions.
1. I wanted to spend similarly w.r.to more amount on Center channel and Subwoofer. I wanted to balance out the budget as well. Hence i wanted to mix the speakers available like below
Kef Q350 for Fronts
Some good center speaker like Emotiva Airmotiv C1+ or KEF Q650 or Monitor Audio Silver C350 or something else
But got suggestions that we need to stick to same company speakers for Fronts and Center to match the tone. But this is narrowing me down due to availability in my area. Few folks sell only KEF and few only Emotiva or Martin Logan
2. My subwoofer might sit somewhere in the center or first half corner of the Hall as you can see, beside the TV. Hence i wanted to go for a sealed sub considering the space and also i didnt want the flat to rumble and create angry neighbours. Pls suggest if i can overcome the sound effects of PB-1000 pro. Else i would go for either SB-1000 pro or Dynamo 800x.
3. Also can i go for flat speakers like On-wall for Fronts and surrounds like KEF T301 and T101, and go for a KEF 650 in the center?? I dont know if i can wall mount the bookshelves considering their port is behind. And i have a 2 yr old kid who would simply put down the speakers if they are only on stands.

I understand that KEF Flat ones are no match for Bookshelves but i wanted a balance output for surrouds at-least by investing more on my choice of sub and center speaker.

I'm not the expert that others are, but here is my experiences from when I recently upgraded my HT. I went with the Denon 6700, BTW. I wanted a bit more amp power. I'm using it as 5.2.2, maybe going to 5.2.4. The Denon was a big upgrade from my older Yamaha.

I used the Q350s as LR for a while during the upgrade process while waiting for shipments to arrive, and they were very good, compared the previous Klipsch (maybe a low bar?). I went with the R3/R2c for LCR as this is likely the last set of speakers I'll buy for the HT, so a splurged a bit. The Q350s are now my rears. From what I heard in the Q350, plus reviews, I think Q350 + Q650 LCR and Q150 surrounds (or something else) would be a good combo. I've seen some measurements of the Q650 that show a big notch around 1kHz, but other measurements (later in same post) barely show it. As mentioned above, it seems the key thing for a center is to get a 2.5 or 3 way.

Amir did not recommend the Q350 and it does have some rough spots. That's why I went R3/R2c for LCR. When I look at the measurements for the Q350 vs some of the others in @sweetchaos post, I don't think the Q350s looks that bad in that price range. I'm not sure about your area, but I see the Q350 as open box/demo for under $500/pair.

KEF does sell their own wall brackets for the Q150 and Q350. It is a nearly flush-mount. I wanted to be able to angle them, so I used 3rd party mounts. The KEF flush mounts might be more child-safe than the 3rd party mount as they won't look like a tree branch to climb on.

I will use the T101 for front heights, as they are super easy to mount and those are really just sound effects. Right now I'm using some Klipsch atmos speakers, but I don't think those really work in my space (I have angled walls towards the top of the 2nd floor walls). The T101 does not have an angle mount, but my walls are 40* in the upper part, so I have a natural surface.

I also looked at the Revel S16 for surrounds. They get good mentions in some posts on ASR, but I've not seen a technical review of them.

I also looked at the ELAC offerings, and they were a contender, but I could not find a full room combo that I liked better than the KEF.

In regards to the 2yo, maybe you need to see if there's a solid piece of furniture you can put the speakers on, rather than use stands? I was not sure where you were going to put everything in the drawing you provided. If you wall mount something like a Q350, I'd be afraid that once the youngster gets a bit bigger they might try to use it for a pull-up bar. If you stand-mount a speaker, you can still anchor it to the wall to prevent tip-over. Some speakers, like the R3, have stand bolts so the speaker is attached to the stand.

You could also look at in-wall speakers instead of on-wall speakers. Those would definitely be more kid-proof.

P.S. I also wall mounted the R3 and R2c, but that's more involved than the Q150 or Q350. I ended up using 6"x14"x4" granite brackets for the R3s plus a piece of poplar for the shelf and used bolts for the shelf and bolts in the bottom of the R3 (it comes with those bolt holes already). For the R2c, I used three 12" brackets (normal shelf brackets) all on studs plus more poplar. I finished the poplar with 2# orange shellac that goes with my walls and offsets the black well.
 
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warrior047

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I'm not the expert that others are, but here is my experiences from when I recently upgraded my HT. I went with the Denon 6700, BTW. I wanted a bit more amp power. I'm using it as 5.2.2, maybe going to 5.2.4. The Denon was a big upgrade from my older Yamaha.

I used the Q350s as LR for a while during the upgrade process while waiting for shipments to arrive, and they were very good, compared the previous Klipsch (maybe a low bar?). I went with the R3/R2c for LCR as this is likely the last set of speakers I'll buy for the HT, so a splurged a bit. The Q350s are now my rears. From what I heard in the Q350, plus reviews, I think Q350 + Q650 LCR and Q150 surrounds (or something else) would be a good combo. I've seen some measurements of the Q650 that show a big notch around 1kHz, but other measurements (later in same post) barely show it. As mentioned above, it seems the key thing for a center is to get a 2.5 or 3 way.

Amir did not recommend the Q350 and it does have some rough spots. That's why I went R3/R2c for LCR. When I look at the measurements for the Q350 vs some of the others in @sweetchaos post, I don't think the Q350s looks that bad in that price range. I'm not sure about your area, but I see the Q350 as open box/demo for under $500/pair.

KEF does sell their own wall brackets for the Q150 and Q350. It is a nearly flush-mount. I wanted to be able to angle them, so I used 3rd party mounts. The KEF flush mounts might be more child-safe than the 3rd party mount as they won't look like a tree branch to climb on.

I will use the T101 for front heights, as they are super easy to mount and those are really just sound effects. Right now I'm using some Klipsch atmos speakers, but I don't think those really work in my space (I have angled walls towards the top of the 2nd floor walls). The T101 does not have an angle mount, but my walls are 40* in the upper part, so I have a natural surface.

I also looked at the Revel S16 for surrounds. They get good mentions in some posts on ASR, but I've not seen a technical review of them.

I also looked at the ELAC offerings, and they were a contender, but I could not find a full room combo that I liked better than the KEF.

In regards to the 2yo, maybe you need to see if there's a solid piece of furniture you can put the speakers on, rather than use stands? I was not sure where you were going to put everything in the drawing you provided. If you wall mount something like a Q350, I'd be afraid that once the youngster gets a bit bigger they might try to use it for a pull-up bar. If you stand-mount a speaker, you can still anchor it to the wall to prevent tip-over. Some speakers, like the R3, have stand bolts so the speaker is attached to the stand.

You could also look at in-wall speakers instead of on-wall speakers. Those would definitely be more kid-proof.

P.S. I also wall mounted the R3 and R2c, but that's more involved than the Q150 or Q350. I ended up using 6"x14"x4" granite brackets for the R3s plus a piece of poplar for the shelf and used bolts for the shelf and bolts in the bottom of the R3 (it comes with those bolt holes already). For the R2c, I used three 12" brackets (normal shelf brackets) all on studs plus more poplar. I finished the poplar with 2# orange shellac that goes with my walls and offsets the black well.
Thanks for the detailed response. I am from Hyderabad, India.
At my place, KEF Q350 comes at 800 USD/Hr as a pair
Q650 comes at 805 USD/hr
Q150 surrounds come at 700 USD/Hr.

If i look at wharfedele, that also comes at minimum 580 $ (Pair for fronts) and is in the same range.
Other speakers like emotiva also fall in range of 650 USD+.

Even SVS PB-1000 Pro comes at 1450 $
SVS SB-1000 Pro comes at 1200$.
Denon X3700H comes at 1700 USD/Hr.

These are exorbitant prices but that is the case for all the high end speakers. Messed up i guess and i want some good quality HT for my living room.

Hence i thought of going for only KEF T301 (450 $ each) for fronts and T101 (550$ for pair) for rears.
But i wanted to invest in a good center and sub to save some bucks at-least.

Kindly suggest.
 

radix

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Thanks for the detailed response. I am from Hyderabad, India.
At my place, KEF Q350 comes at 800 USD/Hr as a pair
Q650 comes at 805 USD/hr
Q150 surrounds come at 700 USD/Hr.

If i look at wharfedele, that also comes at minimum 580 $ (Pair for fronts) and is in the same range.
Other speakers like emotiva also fall in range of 650 USD+.

Even SVS PB-1000 Pro comes at 1450 $
SVS SB-1000 Pro comes at 1200$.
Denon X3700H comes at 1700 USD/Hr.

These are exorbitant prices but that is the case for all the high end speakers. Messed up i guess and i want some good quality HT for my living room.

Hence i thought of going for only KEF T301 (450 $ each) for fronts and T101 (550$ for pair) for rears.
But i wanted to invest in a good center and sub to save some bucks at-least.

Kindly suggest.

You can find @sweetchaos passive recommendations here. That includes centers. The Emotiva Airmotiv B1+ and Airmotiv C1+ center might be the best deal for lower price. The C1+ was not on the list, but I've seen people say good things about it on ASR. You could look at the Elac Uni-Fi Reference UCR52 and Elac Debut Reference DBR-62. If I remember correctly, the ELAC are front ported, so they would do well close to a wall. I've also seem recommendations for the Monoprice "thx" series HT speakers. That's all off the top of my head, I do not remember how any of those compared spec-wise or preference rating wise.

I don't have time right now to link all the reviews, but if you search ASR or look at the speaker review page or the links sweetchaos provides on that past above, you can find them all.

Unless you really want flat speakers, I think any of those emotiva, elac, or monoprice would come out better. The T101s are likely ok for heights or maybe surrounds.
 
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warrior047

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I was inclined towards bookshelves but now looking at placement issues of them, want to consider floorstanding. But would they cause issue with neighbors? I dont share wall sideways but up and below yes - Dali oberon 5 or KEF Q750s

I was under an impression that only Bookshelf as Front left and right would suit me and that floor standing speakers are like an overkill for the place i have.

Am finally leaning towards below - I also want to invest more in Center, sub and Fronts rather than surrounds and ceiling.

Dali oberon 3 or oberon 5 are bit bearable financially for me and am considering Oberon 3 bookshelves with center channel from either Emotiva C1+ or Dali Vokal oberon. Along with a REL Sub.

Even SVS PB-1000 Pro comes at 1450 $
SVS SB-1000 Pro comes at 1200$.
Denon X3700H comes at 1700 USD/Hr.
 

radix

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There's a subwoofer comparison chart here.

From what I've seen on the forum, people often recommend rythmik or svs over REL, especially in terms of value. Maybe you could look at this thread. There are also other good brands, but I don't know about shipping to India. For me, the size and footprint of a sub is just as important as it's quality, as I have limited space to put some giant speaker. You should think about how much floorspace you have. For me, depth was the main issue, so I picked a sub by Sigberg.

I think there's not a problem using floorstanders, especially if they help solve your child safety issues. I don't have any experience with Dali or the Q750. I've not seen technical measurements for the Q750 or Oberon 5, and didn't find them in a few places I looked.
 

Webninja

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I wouldn’t buy a speaker that wasn’t measured or at least had measurements provided by manufacturer. Can you get Revel or JBL in India?

What about Monoprice for subs? Available in your country?
 
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warrior047

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No monoprice. I can try for Dali, KEF, B&W, Focal, Triad, Monitoraudio etc.,
 
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warrior047

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There's a subwoofer comparison chart here.

From what I've seen on the forum, people often recommend rythmik or svs over REL, especially in terms of value. Maybe you could look at this thread. There are also other good brands, but I don't know about shipping to India. For me, the size and footprint of a sub is just as important as it's quality, as I have limited space to put some giant speaker. You should think about how much floorspace you have. For me, depth was the main issue, so I picked a sub by Sigberg.

I think there's not a problem using floorstanders, especially if they help solve your child safety issues. I don't have any experience with Dali or the Q750. I've not seen technical measurements for the Q750 or Oberon 5, and didn't find them in a few places I looked.
At my place, SVS is more expensive than REL.
SVS PB1000-Pro comes at 1450 USD.
The compact SB1000-Pro comes at 1225 USD.

REL Acoustics HT/1205 comes at 1400 USD.

I am also looking towards the good looking and sounding Martin Logan Dynamo 800x, and this comes at 1300 USD.
 
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warrior047

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Final Configs being planned. Pls check and suggest if this is fine

Rear Surrounds -> Dali Oberon On-Wall or KEF T101 On wall or Martin Logan Motion 4i (Inclining towards KEF for cheaper option)
Ceiling Atmos ->Q Acoustics QI 80C or Polk Audio RC80i or Monitor Audio C165
Sub -> SVS PB-1000 Pro or Martin logan Dynamo 800x or REL Acoustics HT/1205 -> Can also consider SVS SB 1000 Pro considering compact sub
AVR -> Denon X2700H

Above is common for any options below.

Option 1 -> Bookshelves
LR -> Dali Oberon 3 or KEF Q350
Center -> Emotiva C1+ (Not sure about the timbre matching and tonal checks) - Just going based on reviews of C2+ and this being a 3 way center. Alternatively can go for 2 way Dali oberon Vokal or 2.5 way KEF Q650
-> Total comes at around between 5000-5200 USD including surrounds, ceiling, sub and AVR

Option 2 -> Floorstanders
LR -> Dali Oberon 5 or KEF Q550
Center -> 2 way Dali oberon Vokal or KEF Q650

-> Total comes at around between 5400-5600 USD including surrounds, ceiling, sub and AVR
Dali LCR setup with common surrounds above -> 5500 USD
KEF LCR Setup with common surrounds above -> 5850 USD
 

radix

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On the speaker recommendation thread, only the KEF Q350 shows up of what you've listed for LR. Maybe that's because the DALI has not been measured? I don't know.

In bookshelves, Polk R200, Elac DBR-62, and KEF Q350 are #1-#3 for up to $1600/pair (the polk and elac first show up at $700/pair and under, the Q350 at $750). I would personally lean towards a measured speaker.

In floorstanders, for $1250/pair and less, the recommendations are Infinity R263, Emotiva T2+, and Revel F35. And that R263 stays in the #1 spot until $3600/pair.

In regards to mixing LCR (e.g. Dali/KEF LR plus Emotiva center), I would look for combos that have similar sensitivity and impedance, so your loudness scales ok. For example, the Q350 and Q650 are both 87dB sensitivity at 8 ohms. They will also have a consistent look, if appearances is important to you. The emotiva C1+ and T2+ are 89 db and 91 db, respectively, both at 4 ohms.

The Dali's might be just fine, but simply do not seem to be measured.

Anyway, I'm not adding much here, just repeating what I've seen that looks important. Personally, I liked the KEF Q350 and the R3/R2c, so I would not have much hesitation going Q350 or Q550 plus a Q650, but that's a non-technical opinion. I have no experience with the others.
 
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