Topping PA5 Review (Amplifier)

[mocenigo]

Topping PA5 Speaker Listening Tests
I am confident of the transparency of this amplifier with respect to noise and distortion. However, I was curious how far its power goes. So I hooked up the PA5 to my Infinity Reference 253 speaker. I must stay, I was not prepared for the level of impact, fidelity and overall quality of the sound. The PA5 grabbed the ears of this speaker and pulled it any direction music asked it to like nobody's business! There was thundering bass. Superb high frequency and ability to fill my space despite only playing one speaker. It was hard to imagine this little amplifier powering this speaker so beautifully.

Thank you for your review – and in a certain sense it makes sense to test this little amp with cheap speakers. However the Infinity Reference 253 are rubbish. For that price there would be many other good speakers. It would be interesting to see the PA5 in action with something good, or even something of a higher class.

 

[mocenigo]

I really cannot understand why people are bellyaching about the $350 price when performance is equivalent to $1000-$2000 Purifi-based amps and approaches the $3500 Benchmark AHB2.

I guess because of the small size people are calling it a “toy amp” and cannot wrap their heads around its SOTA performance. What is this place, Stereophile?

The performance is certainly not at the same level. One set of measurements is, which is strongly correlated with perceivable sound quality. HOWEVER, this is an internal bridged amp already, and most likely doe snot behave well with loads under 4ohms. The Purifi amps drive 2ohm with aplomb and the AHB2 goes also lower, so measurements at 5W/4R (a resistor FFS, not a real load) do not do much if your speakers are a difficult load for the amp. The Infinity Reference 253 (despite the name "reference") in there are crappy speakers but at least the load has a 4.2 ohm minimum, with a contained argument, so the PA5 can drive them properly.

Also, the power output is limited. A Purifi module, in SE and not bridged, can deliver 3.5 times as much power. Also the AHB2 delivers more. And I would be curious to see whether the external "gaming laptop brick like" switcher can deliver energy for sudden transients. I would be warm as 38V * 4V = about 152 W but this means that with a strong transient through BOTH channels the little amp will just... sag. Because 120 W * 2 = 240 W > 152.

So, no, in no universe the performance is equivalent $1000-$2000 Purifi-based amps and approaches the $3500 Benchmark AHB2. Not even remotely.

Now, do not misunderstand me. I am certainly not arguing that PA5 is crap. On the contrary. I believe this little thing is a milestone. It is a great product. Kudos to John for his fantastic work. And I do not believe at all that it is overpriced - here I agree with you, Billy. It is priced fairly indeed. Just do not expect it to drive loads worse than 4Ohm properly, and to actually deliver *more* than ~70W on *any* load – unless the music signal is heavily unbalanced, but we know that most of the energy is in the lower bass and in stereo recordings the bass part is very similar in the two channels, provided it is a real recording.

 

[mocenigo]

Here's the impedance and phase graph for the Infinity Reference 253 speakers. So we can see what the little amp had to deal with.

If has nothing special to deal with. Minimum at 4.2 ohm. Yes, there are jumps up and down, but a hard load is something different.

 

[DanielT]

That’s a little different—it’s a kit and the farts at Stereophile want to relive their memories of building Heathkit and Dynakit amplifiers in the 60’s.

So it may be. Nostaligi in combination with DIY is a deadly combination (a joke).

DIY people belong to a fun family. Some people overestimate their creations very much. I understand the psychological in that own cooked food tastes best, but still.The more experienced the more humble and self-critical. More cool in their approach to their DIY.DIY of such experienced ones that I have heard that sound fabulously good, by the way. That is my experience.

Personally, I'm just doing a little easier DIY. A fun pastime.

 

[douede]

...Total spend on the Aiyimas: about $125. With the Topping, and cables, I'm at around $625. The Topping is a very nice system but not worth the extra $500 IMHO. If my budget were tight, I'd recommend putting the $500 into better speakers...

Thanks a lot for your review, and usefull advice.

 

[DanielT]

The performance is certainly not at the same level. One set of measurements is, which is strongly correlated with perceivable sound quality. HOWEVER, this is an internal bridged amp already, and most likely doe snot behave well with loads under 4ohms. The Purifi amps drive 2ohm with aplomb and the AHB2 goes also lower, so measurements at 5W/4R (a resistor FFS, not a real load) do not do much if your speakers are a difficult load for the amp. The Infinity Reference 253 (despite the name "reference") in there are crappy speakers but at least the load has a 4.2 ohm minimum, with a contained argument, so the PA5 can drive them properly.

Also, the power output is limited. A Purifi module, in SE and not bridged, can deliver 3.5 times as much power. Also the AHB2 delivers more. And I would be curious to see whether the external "gaming laptop brick like" switcher can deliver energy for sudden transients. I would be warm as 38V * 4V = about 152 W but this means that with a strong transient through BOTH channels the little amp will just... sag. Because 120 W * 2 = 240 W > 152.

So, no, in no universe the performance is equivalent $1000-$2000 Purifi-based amps and approaches the $3500 Benchmark AHB2. Not even remotely.

Now, do not misunderstand me. I am not considering the PA5 to be crap. On the contrary. I believe this little thing is a milestone. It is a great product. Kudos to John for his fantastic work. And I do not believe at all that it is overpriced - here I agree with you, Billy. It is priced fairly indeed. Just do not expect it to drive loads worse than 4Ohm properly, and to actually deliver *more* than ~70W on *any* load – unless the music signal is heavily unbalanced, but we know that most of the energy is in the lower bass and in stereo recordings the bass part is very similar in the two channels, provided it is a real recording.

Maybe it's as much as squeezing out good sound from Texas Instrument TPA 3255 as it may be, what Topping is now done with PA5?
Surely it is TPA 3255 that is in it? Or?

In any case, the theoretical limit with TPA 3255 is somewhere.

 

[BoredErica]

The performance is certainly not at the same level. One set of measurements is, which is strongly correlated with perceivable sound quality. HOWEVER, this is an internal bridged amp already, and most likely doe snot behave well with loads under 4ohms. The Purifi amps drive 2ohm with aplomb and the AHB2 goes also lower, so measurements at 5W/4R (a resistor FFS, not a real load) do not do much if your speakers are a difficult load for the amp. The Infinity Reference 253 (despite the name "reference") in there are crappy speakers but at least the load has a 4.2 ohm minimum, with a contained argument, so the PA5 can drive them properly.

There's been no test for such a load, so we don't know if the amp performs well or poorly, unless you're saying we can extrapolate well enough based on Amir's data.

Also, the power output is limited. A Purifi module, in SE and not bridged, can deliver 3.5 times as much power. Also the AHB2 delivers more. And I would be curious to see whether the external "gaming laptop brick like" switcher can deliver energy for sudden transients. I would be warm as 38V * 4V = about 152 W but this means that with a strong transient through BOTH channels the little amp will just... sag. Because 120 W * 2 = 240 W > 152.

So, no, in no universe the performance is equivalent $1000-$2000 Purifi-based amps and approaches the $3500 Benchmark AHB2. Not even remotely.

Now, do not misunderstand me. I am certainly not arguing that PA5 is crap. On the contrary. I believe this little thing is a milestone. It is a great product. Kudos to John for his fantastic work. And I do not believe at all that it is overpriced - here I agree with you, Billy. It is priced fairly indeed. Just do not expect it to drive loads worse than 4Ohm properly, and to actually deliver *more* than ~70W on *any* load – unless the music signal is heavily unbalanced, but we know that most of the energy is in the lower bass and in stereo recordings the bass part is very similar in the two channels, provided it is a real recording.

I don't think there's a single person in this thread that's under the impression that pa5 delivers as much power as ahb2... You either need the power or you don't and there's really not much else to be said.

If has nothing special to deal with. Minimum at 4.2 ohm. Yes, there are jumps up and down, but a hard load is something different.

Are you saying a hard load is just based on how low the impedance is at high frequencies?


---
How does a $339 amp become $625 with cables? Walkman bought ~$300 of cables? I dunno where these numbers are coming from.

 

[mocenigo]

Maybe it's as much as squeezing out good sound from Texas Instrument TPA 3255 as it may be, what Topping is now done with PA5?
Surely it is TPA 3255 that is in it? Or?

In any case, the theoretical limit with TPA 3255 is somewhere.

From the size is could be. It is a 4 channel AMP, with the channels having min load of 2Ohm. So this could be bridged to deliver 2 channels with 4ohm min.

 

[Billy Budapest]

So it may be. Nostaligi in combination with DIY is a deadly combination (a joke).

DIY people belong to a fun family. Some people overestimate their creations very much. I understand the psychological in that own cooked food tastes best, but still.The more experienced the more humble and self-critical. More cool in their approach to their DIY.DIY of such experienced ones that I have heard that sound fabulously good, by the way. That is my experience.

Personally, I'm just doing a little easier DIY. A fun pastime.

As you can probably tell, I was kidding around about the Stereophile writers.

 

[DanielT]

What do you think about the market potential for PA5 now that so many good active speakers are coming out, Kali new LP-8/6v2 for example

Kali Audio LP-8v2 (Second Wave) 2-Way Studio Monitor Review

Kali Audio LP-8v2 2-Way Studio Monitor Review

www.erinsaudiocorner.com

 

[Keened]

What do you think about the market potential for PA5 now that so many good active speakers are coming out, Kali new LP-8/6v2 for example

Kali Audio LP-8v2 (Second Wave) 2-Way Studio Monitor Review

Kali Audio LP-8v2 2-Way Studio Monitor Review

www.erinsaudiocorner.com

Fundamentally it will come down to whether active monitors hit the magical 5 and 10 year reliability mark. Consumers will happily trade cost for convenience in general so active speakers are going to eat up the mid-fi market, but enthusiasts and people looking at price/performance tend to be more concerned with performance and longevity. Once people see active speakers that sound reference neutral (for 95% of the population) for $300 that last ~10 years there goes the majority of the market.

At that point you're looking at edge cases like people retrofitting rears and heights with smaller/better power.

It's a real shame in some ways, because pushing the limits so we could get something like the PA-5 means we probably won't see a market for a PA-5 mk 2.

 

[BoredErica]

If they made LS50 Meta powered version that doesn't cost $1200 more like the wireless version I might've gone for it. But having expensive speakers that have electronics that can fail, oof. Rather a cheapo burrito power amp fail than those.

I'm coming off of two old Rokits that die over time like g2 Rokits tend to do.

 

[juliangst]

TRS inputs??? You have got to be kidding. I would be in the market for this it it had RCA inputs and no volume control.

Just get adapters or just TRS to RCA cables. It shouldn't damage anything, most XLR-only amps even come with RCA to XLR adapters

 

[Rottmannash]

You need to check the more "fancy" models ... from other brands, not audiophonics, i don´t like to post that because many are users here.
And ... i remember to check in the hypex PDFs that the "real" power in 8 ohms 1% THD was about 1/5 of the posted in the specifications.
Powerful?

Are you claiming the Hypex modules only output 1/5 of their stated rated power??

 

[TimF]

Talk with a technician about capacitors and components in any Accuphase you can find and in hypex power supply ... that's not semantic ... and objective.

What is the reality of the performance of the Accuphase? Is it heads and shoulders exceptional? Or is it very good in a field of very good, or is it good in a broader field of good. Let us be clear about this. Iconic value is one thing but what about actual performance? Many of the iconic cars of the 50's, 60's and 70's had relatively low horse power and torque numbers compared to today's engines. That is, a good four cylinder engine of today can put out 170 and greater horsepower and that in the 50's-60's was a damn good output for the great majority of cars on the road then.

 

[mocenigo]

Are you claiming the Hypex modules only output 1/5 of their stated rated power??

Check the continuous and peak power in the data sheets. One is 100w and the other is 500w. Even though with heat sinking and a fan you can definitely push the first one up quite a bit. Of course I would not read it as the modules outputting only 1/5 of their stated rated power.

 

[mocenigo]

There's been no test for such a load, so we don't know if the amp performs well or poorly, unless you're saying we can extrapolate well enough based on Amir's data.

Well, I do not know any class D chip amp that can drive lower than 2ohm. We know this one is a class D chip amp and it is bridged. So it does not driver lower than 4ohm.

I don't think there's a single person in this thread that's under the impression that pa5 delivers as much power as ahb2... You either need the power or you don't and there's really not much else to be said.

I did not imply that. However the power that the AHB2 can deliver is even underestimated a bit. The power delivered by the PA5 is a bit overestimated, just because the power supply cannot deliver 250W (2 x 125W in 4ohm).

Are you saying a hard load is just based on how low the impedance is at high frequencies?

Nope. Hard loads are usually when you drop quite low (lower than 4ohm, way lower than that) in the bass register. Then you need a lot of current. Many sweet sounding amps just sag, then. Those situations need muscle. The Infinity Reference 253 just need an amp with a response that does not depend on the impedance at a given frequency, not a muscular amp.

---
How does a $339 amp become $625 with cables? Walkman bought ~$300 of cables? I dunno where these numbers are coming from.

 

[pjug]

Well, I do not know any class D chip amp that can drive lower than 2ohm. We know this one is a class D chip amp and it is bridged. So it does not driver lower than 4ohm.

We don't know what chip amp Topping is using but the data sheet for TPA5251 gives a power curve for 3 ohms in BTL configuration (Figure 3) so it would seem it is possible to go below 4 ohms.

https://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/tpa3251.pdf

 

[F1308]

Merry Christmas....!!!!

Order date : 2021-12-01
Order ID : 339662
Total price : 351,91 €
Payment : Pay by bank card
Sent.
Sent.
Sent.
It is sent !!!!

 

[ModDIY]

BTL at minimum 3ohms
PBTL at minimum 2 ohms.

If these a TPA3251 or 55, the P5A are in mode BTL.