Starke Sound AD4.320 Review (Multichannel Amplifier)

[restorer-john]

Why should you pay a fee for a defective product and as far as restocking what are they going to do sell this broken product to someone else

Sometimes it's better to just cut your losses and move on. Life, and people's time are worth more than the hassle of having a fight.

 

[diddley]

Sometimes it's better to just cut your losses and move on. Life, and people's time are worth more than the hassle of having a fight.

Wise words.

 

[KxDx]

Holy shit, I just read this whole thread beginning to end. I'm almost speechless.

But this testing showed a faulty product and bringing it to life has forced the manufacturer to act to correct it. They just should have done so without so much goddamn friction.

If you fuck up, own it. Good grief. This is like the Ciunas DAC all over again.

 

[Bobo77]

I bought this amp to drive Magnepan 3.7i's based on Jay's YouTube review - these are very revealing speakers (bad recordings sound really bad, good recordings will make your spine tingle). They like a lot of power.
This amp sounded good, but it was absolutely coloring the sound. Significant bass boost and tube like sound.
It did not get anywhere near as loud as the NAD C298 I'm currently using. When I bridged the Starke, I did not notice any increase in volume.
That was a clue that something wasn't up to snuff.
For over a month, I did critical listening tests to A/B it with the NAD, the NAD revealed much more detail and control.
With the NAD I could distinctly hear each instrument separated in the sound stage and it was uncolored.
This was not the case with the Starke. It did sound good, my wife actually preferred it, but I think she was reacting to the emphasized bass and tube like mid/highs.
With some songs I literally went back and forth between the amps over and over again many times.
I got good at swapping XLR cables fast! I'd play quietly and turn up the volume over time with both amps to see how they sounded at all volumes.
People have described the NAD as sounding like nothing. Just a straight wire with gain and I'd agree.
When I talked to Starke about the lack of volume in bridged mode, I got the distinct impression that this wasn't the first time they'd heard this feedback. They told me I'd have to pay for return shipping and a 10% restocking fee. Previously they said the opposite.
So I said, Ok fine charge me. I'm out a couple hundred dollars and that's the small price I'll gladly pay to realize Starke wasn't ever going to get my business in future. Just like a bad restaurant, you may end up paying for a bad meal, but at least you know not to come back.
They said they'd send me an email with a RMA. It didn't show up for a couple days and I called back and reminded them. That evening I got an email with a shipping label. I sent it back a couple days ago and will report back when they refund me.

James, thanks for such a a detailed description of your experience. So…I watched Jay' review twice…the "tubey" sound that you are describing seems to be what Jay liked about the amp…but again…your also appear to have a "lack-of-power" issue. Seems that you are similar to everyone else.

 

[Bobo77]

It's pretty simple Gene. Your site clearly lists it as a 'review'.

View attachment 170520



You even double down at the end that it's a review:

View attachment 170522

It's just blatantly deceptive, plain and simple.

The clue that it’s not a review is the last sentence, where he says that he has not listened to the amp yet! LOL! Gene bullied me and inferred I was stupid for not knowing it was a preview. (I thought the original "First Impression" at the top of the page said "Gotta have it!"? Was that changed?).

 

[nstzya]

The clue that it’s not a review is the last sentence, where he says that he has not listened to the amp yet! LOL! Gene bullied me and inferred I was stupid for not knowing it was a preview. (I thought the original "First Impression" at the top of the page said "Gotta have it!"? Was that changed?).

Yes, review Gene’s posts. He made changes in response to criticism here.

 

[jamesoco]

James, thanks for such a a detailed description of your experience. So…I watched Jay' review twice…the "tubey" sound that you are describing seems to be what Jay liked about the amp…but again…your also appear to have a "lack-of-power" issue. Seems that you are similar to everyone else.

Hey @Bobo77 you're welcome. My lesson learned is this. Informed experts like Jay are biased, even when they trying to be objective. He compares the AD4.320 favorable against NAD C298, yet I doubt he listened to them back to back, instead relying on his memory. The detail of the C298 is very apparent when you A/B against the AD4.320. If he'd bridged 4 channels into 2, he would have surely realized it didn't really affect the output. And the extra bass sounded "good" at first, but it was like adding steak sauce to a good steak. Yeah, it tastes great, but it's really changing the flavor. After some time the extra bass wore on me and I realized it was like an amp induced loudness impacting the accuracy of the recording. I'm going to be more careful of reviews based off of impressions not measurements in future.

I'm really glad I stumbled on ASR. @amirm thanks for creating a place where delusional audiophiles like me can get some facts to help make evidence based decisions. It's truly is an amazing time to be an audiophile. Never before could you build an audiophile system for so little money, with such high quality. And it's only getting better. Hobie Sechrest at Monoprice just announced that they were doing a 8 Channel class D amp based on the Hypex NC502 so you can pair 2 of them with the HTP-1 and drive all 16 channels. For less than the price of a stereo McIntosh amp you'll be able to buy an HTP-1 and 16 channels of 500 watts class D power. Truly a good time to an audiophile.

 

[Bobo77]

Yes, review Gene’s posts. He made changes in response to criticism here.

I really don't want to review anything that Gene said!

 

[Mack]

Well darn. I have one of these boxes up waiting to be reviewed. I didn’t expect it to perform like the best on the market, but expected better than this. At least I now have a valid data point to compare my measurements with.

I talked to the company about the design of the amplifier and asked a few technical questions. It seems they were pretty forthright with the design to be honest. They told me how the feedback loop worked on this design and seemed to understand it would be more reactive. The comment made to me was that this was not for high sound quality, that is what their Class AB amps are for.

Have you reviewed this amp yet I bought two before seeing these tests

 

[Bobo77]

Hey @Bobo77 you're welcome. My lesson learned is this. Informed experts like Jay are biased, even when they trying to be objective. He compares the AD4.320 favorable against NAD C298, yet I doubt he listened to them back to back, instead relying on his memory. The detail of the C298 is very apparent when you A/B against the AD4.320. If he'd bridged 4 channels into 2, he would have surely realized it didn't really affect the output. And the extra bass sounded "good" at first, but it was like adding steak sauce to a good steak. Yeah, it tastes great, but it's really changing the flavor. After some time the extra bass wore on me and I realized it was like an amp induced loudness impacting the accuracy of the recording. I'm going to be more careful of reviews based off of impressions not measurements in future.

I'm really glad I stumbled on ASR. @amirm thanks for creating a place where delusional audiophiles like me can get some facts to help make evidence based decisions. It's truly is an amazing time to be an audiophile. Never before could you build an audiophile system for so little money, with such high quality. And it's only getting better. Hobie Sechrest at Monoprice just announced that they were doing a 8 Channel class D amp based on the Hypex NC502 so you can pair 2 of them with the HTP-1 and drive all 16 channels. For less than the price of a stereo McIntosh amp you'll be able to buy an HTP-1 and 16 channels of 500 watts class D power. Truly a good time to an audiophile.

James...thanks for reaching out....I mentioned this before...but I am going to repeat it here and elaborate...It is over the feeling of being deceived, clearly by Starke, also...well discussed here... by Gene...but the one that bothers me most is Jay. I cannot prove ANY of what I am about to say..but I am a guy from New Jersey...and I am very aware of "the grift". LOL!...I have been a huge fan of Jay's for well over a year..and have not missed one..not a one of his reviews...so I wanted to think that I had a good sense of him...Some of the qualities I liked was his enthusiasm, and his BALANCED reviews. He seemed very consistent and thorough with his reviews and I was VERY familiar with him...Me, being a New Jersey Guy, when he reviewed The Starke AD4.320 I was taken aback and quite suspicious....about the review...He is a TOTAL adherent to Class A/B amplification....ALWAYS!... So...he reviews the AD4 and GUSHES about it...with no downsides (or nothing close to his regular balanced reviews). Call the amp "insanely great". Never heard him say that before. He is utterly amazed that it is class D, puts out SO MUCH POWER (and has "tube-sound" and warmth as I recall)...ALL of this also can be had for $1500...and possibly $hundreds less during Black Friday Sales. The way he gushed ...it just seemed too good to be true. He justified his claims and I looked into the amp (I have been patiently shopping for a power amp for quite some time), so I had particular interest in my revered reviewer's excitement ...but it just sounded "too good to be true" (and you know what they say about that!). So his very next review is a review of the Buchardt S400 Mark II...and guess who is sponsoring it...LOL!..Starke Audio..They are announced in the beginning with highlighting lots of details about..guess what?....the Black Friday Sale...
and then again in the middle of the video where he just-so-happens to discuss the amplification (which is normal for him) being used to power the Buchardts (starts at ~minute 9) which of course, it is the AD4 (where he gushes AGAIN and does ANOTHER ad for the Black Friday Sale)... I was thinking...hey..now I really smell a rat. OK..so he is also powering the Buchardts for the review with the Denafrips Hades/Thallo pre-amp/amp combo as well. Thujan, his buddy says he cannot hear any difference between the Starke and the Thallo/Hades Combo..but Jay does admit "he" hears ever-so-slightly more refined highs from the Thallo. The Thallo is a bona fide A/B amp putting out a under-rated 125wpc @8ohms. Knowing what I know now....I am sure that the Denafrips (incredible reputation), is twice the amp that the Starke is ....if not more. After sitting thru the two reviews and having a long history with his reviews I got the feeling that he was almost laughing in my face..sort of smirking when he gushed about the Starke here. I have got a great gut. I believe that Starke paid Jay and Gene and who knows who else to say specific things about the product and the people "sold-out" for the money. And it turns out that the amp is complete junk. Not a big deal...that is the way the world turns....but I just feel it is so deceptive to viewers, especially in the case of Jay and Thujan. Again...I can prove NOTHING of what I have said here...and it is TOTALLY my opinion...but there it is.

 

[jamesoco]

James...thanks for reaching out....I mentioned this before...but I am going to repeat it here and elaborate...It is over the feeling of being deceived, clearly by Starke, also...well discussed here... by Gene...but the one that bothers me most is Jay. I cannot prove ANY of what I am about to say..but I am a guy from New Jersey...and I am very aware of "the grift". LOL!...I have been a huge fan of Jay's for well over a year..and have not missed one..not a one of his reviews...so I wanted to think that I had a good sense of him...Some of the qualities I liked was his enthusiasm, and his BALANCED reviews. He seemed very consistent and thorough with his reviews and I was VERY familiar with him...Me, being a New Jersey Guy, when he reviewed The Starke AD4.320 I was taken aback and quite suspicious....about the review...He is a TOTAL adherent to Class A/B amplification....ALWAYS!... So...he reviews the AD4 and GUSHES about it...with no downsides (or nothing close to his regular balanced reviews). Call the amp "insanely great". Never heard him say that before. He is utterly amazed that it is class D, puts out SO MUCH POWER (and has "tube-sound" and warmth as I recall)...ALL of this also can be had for $1500...and possibly $hundreds less during Black Friday Sales. The way he gushed ...it just seemed too good to be true. He justified his claims and I looked into the amp (I have been patiently shopping for a power amp for quite some time), so I had particular interest in my revered reviewer's excitement ...but it just sounded "too good to be true" (and you know what they say about that!). So his very next review is a review of the Buchardt S400 Mark II...and guess who is sponsoring it...LOL!..Starke Audio..They are announced in the beginning with highlighting lots of details about..guess what?....the Black Friday Sale...
and then again in the middle of the video where he just-so-happens to discuss the amplification (which is normal for him) being used to power the Buchardts (starts at ~minute 9) which of course, it is the AD4 (where he gushes AGAIN and does ANOTHER ad for the Black Friday Sale)... I was thinking...hey..now I really smell a rat. OK..so he is also powering the Buchardts for the review with the Denafrips Hades/Thallo pre-amp/amp combo as well. Thujan, his buddy says he cannot hear any difference between the Starke and the Thallo/Hades Combo..but Jay does admit "he" hears ever-so-slightly more refined highs from the Thallo. The Thallo is a bona fide A/B amp putting out a under-rated 125wpc @8ohms. Knowing what I know now....I am sure that the Denafrips (incredible reputation), is twice the amp that the Starke is ....if not more. After sitting thru the two reviews and having a long history with his reviews I got the feeling that he was almost laughing in my face..sort of smirking when he gushed about the Starke here. I have got a great gut. I believe that Starke paid Jay and Gene and who knows who else to say specific things about the product and the people "sold-out" for the money. And it turns out that the amp is complete junk. Not a big deal...that is the way the world turns....but I just feel it is so deceptive to viewers, especially in the case of Jay and Thujan. Again...I can prove NOTHING of what I have said here...and it is TOTALLY my opinion...but there it is.

You just said everything I was thinking.
This just feels like a scam.
The reason I fell for it was because:
1. I like Jay. I watch his video's and he seems like a straight shooter.
2. The other reviews I read were consistent with Jay's, as was the companies website.
3. They had a 30 day money back trial.
4. The folks at Starke were very personable, flexible and helpful on the phone.
It could be that the units that Starke sent out to these folks were up to spec.
I have no idea.
If I didn't have a C298 to A/B test with, and I didn't test the bridge mode, I may have been duped.
This whole thing has me no longer trusting anyone in the above list.
I'm still searching for a multichannel amp and the new more powerful purifi looks compelling.
I'd like VTV to build me one, but it's early days and I have no idea when it's going to be available.
Let me know if you find a winner.

 

[Bobo77]

Yeah…I did not buy..and as it turns out you were able to get a refund after all. Amir's solid testing specs and us wrangling with Gene (who knew all along that they were bad, himself)…It would seem that we all finally shamed them into doing something. Starke knew…otherwise…why not send a functioning good amp to Gene or Amir or show us your test data and how you arrived at it?? How about "acting concerned"?
Clear everything up. I believe that all the amps are not spec., and they do not want that to be known. Starke could not send something that they did not have to clear the air.. The few-bad-transformers nonsense is just a very well thought out ruse. They figure they will just put out this little fire over here and move on…all the while still selling the amps as they are.
They function enough for the average buyer to never be the wiser. Right?
I now need to take anything that these "influencers" say…with a grain-of-salt. There are lots of good audio companies out there, too…that take great pride in their work. Most I believe. That is what I learned here. Good reminder.
BTW… I am looking for a powerful stereo amp…You need home theatre, right?
I actually just use a Marantz SR6015 for a 5.2 surround-sound for movies and TV.
It’s great for my needs.
I am more serious about my two-channel music listening, though.

 

[Mack]

They are also proving why it is futile in most cases to "check with manufacturer" before publishing reviews. Would they have made me wait nearly 3 weeks with no response?

I bought two units in October and November before seeing your review have you heard anything yet? Can these amps be fixed? If so what would it take? And is it worth the money thanks

 

[JRaab]

I bought two units in October and November before seeing your review have you heard anything yet? Can these amps be fixed? If so what would it take? And is it worth the money thanks

Call them and ask for a return and a full refund. They aren't offering anything at all (repairs or otherwise). We had to call them out in this thread to get a refund, so it was forced, not offered.

 

[Bobo77]

Call them and ask for a return and a full refund. They aren't offering anything at all (repairs or otherwise). We had to call them out in this thread to get a refund, so it was forced, not offered.

Exactly right, JRaab. ...and good advice. That is a good assessment of the situation as far as I know, too.

 

[amirm]

I bought two units in October and November before seeing your review have you heard anything yet? Can these amps be fixed? If so what would it take? And is it worth the money thanks

Not word from them that makes any sense. Just talking points that are not logical.

 

[Loron]

My Buckeye is in transit! Came so close to buy the Starke….so close. I guess I made the right choice. Sadly I will be traveling during Christmas holiday but will play with my new amp. Will see what Starke does from now on……

 

[JRS]

Hey @Bobo77 you're welcome. My lesson learned is this. Informed experts like Jay are biased, even when they trying to be objective. He compares the AD4.320 favorable against NAD C298, yet I doubt he listened to them back to back, instead relying on his memory. The detail of the C298 is very apparent when you A/B against the AD4.320. If he'd bridged 4 channels into 2, he would have surely realized it didn't really affect the output. And the extra bass sounded "good" at first, but it was like adding steak sauce to a good steak. Yeah, it tastes great, but it's really changing the flavor. After some time the extra bass wore on me and I realized it was like an amp induced loudness impacting the accuracy of the recording. I'm going to be more careful of reviews based off of impressions not measurements in future.

I'm really glad I stumbled on ASR. @amirm thanks for creating a place where delusional audiophiles like me can get some facts to help make evidence based decisions. It's truly is an amazing time to be an audiophile. Never before could you build an audiophile system for so little money, with such high quality. And it's only getting better. Hobie Sechrest at Monoprice just announced that they were doing a 8 Channel class D amp based on the Hypex NC502 so you can pair 2 of them with the HTP-1 and drive all 16 channels. For less than the price of a stereo McIntosh amp you'll be able to buy an HTP-1 and 16 channels of 500 watts class D power. Truly a good time to an audiophile.

I stumbled here recently myself, and was so completely done with audio forum madness, I couldn't believe there was a place where polite, science based sanity could prevail.

And at 65, what you describe is looking end game to me. 16 channels = biamped L, C, R and running something like 7.4.2 Atmos set up. I cannot imagine how any advancement in my lifetime could make that obsolete. L and R would actually be triamped, flat to 30 and count as 2 of the subwoofers in my dream scheme. That way simple stereo would be world class as well. I really am itching to see that Monoprice prepro finally released with issues resolved. I don't want to spend 20k on a Trinnov when 5K for the Monoprice and some assorted DSP will do. Of course the woofers may need 350+watts to really rumble.

 

[jamesoco]

FYI…
Starke issued me a full refund.

 

[nstzya]

Good to hear @jamesoco. Did they pay return shipping as well?

I am very curious to see how this all turns out. I want to believe it is merely a manufacturing error and not a defective design - or worse yet, outright fraudulent. If a manufacturing error, the question becomes how many units? I suspect even they don’t know and why they are offering refunds to everyone. I still can’t understand why they continue to promote and sell units however. Unless they have evaluated/tested the current stock and found it to be within specs - but then why not simply provide such results? At a minimum, they get poor marks for quality control and damage control which are offset somewhat by points earned in customer relations - as long as the refund policy continues.