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Topping PA5 Review (Amplifier)

restorer-john

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In the distortion vs frequency plot, not the multitone one.

It's more than -60dB THD. The measurement only has a 45kHz bandwidth so you are only seeing H2 and H3 of a 15kHz fundamental.
 

Billy Budapest

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I think Topping has used the best output inductors available (same as what I use on my commercial TPA3255 amp). These four inductors alone cost $24 (in quantity) and clearly, there are about 8 premium opamps at about $4ea so another $32 there. So I see at least $56 in upgraded parts and if we add the 4 gang pot, two high quality relays, four TRS jacks, two MOSFETs for remote power switch, I see another $30 in components. So we are at $80. Typical markup for retail is at least 3x so $240. Add that to usual $100 cost for a cased TPA3255 amp and we are at $340. The cost is fair and reasonable. You can’t sell it for less without skimping on features. Sorry $350 is a fair and excellent price for the level of performance you are getting here.
I really cannot understand why people are bellyaching about the $350 price when performance is equivalent to $1000-$2000 Purifi-based amps and approaches the $3500 Benchmark AHB2.

I guess because of the small size people are calling it a “toy amp” and cannot wrap their heads around its SOTA performance. What is this place, Stereophile?
 

Bruce Morgen

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They will likely sell many, this doesn't change the fact it's expensive for what it is.

Try looking at it as a smaller, lower power AHB2 -- for a tiny fraction of the AHB2's price!
 

gvl

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Try looking at it as a smaller, lower power AHB2 -- for a tiny fraction of the AHB2's price!

It's no small AHB2, it's a good Class-D chip amp from China (for the cost of manufacture POV and warranty service logistics) that should cost $50-100 less.
 
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pma

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Try looking at it as a smaller, lower power AHB2 -- for a tiny fraction of the AHB2's price!
There is a big difference in mechanical and casework design, not speaking about basic differences between the class AB and D. This small thing is not designed as an adult amplifier and has a lot of quality standards controversy.
 

0bs3rv3r

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Billy Budapest said:
I really cannot understand why people are bellyaching about the $350 price when performance is equivalent to $1000-$2000 Purifi-based amps and approaches the $3500 Benchmark AHB2.

I guess because of the small size people are calling it a “toy amp” and cannot wrap their heads around its SOTA performance. What is this place, Stereophile?


I think it's quite petty to quibble over the (very cheap) price. They should try building one as good, for the price, themselves.
 

restorer-john

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I think it's quite petty to quibble over the (very cheap) price.

Look, for USD$349 it's grossly overpriced. That's the bottom line. But ASR members will lap it up in droves because it came 2nd in the 1kHz SINAD race.

But I hope Topping sells tons of them, because then John Yang will get carte blanche and a decent budget to design and build a bunch of real amplifiers, instead of these little dinky Class D things. That's what I am looking forward to. The last time we had no-expense spared, purely engineering-driven amplifiers, was the late 1980s early 1990s.
 

gvl

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I think it's quite petty to quibble over the (very cheap) price. They should try building one as good, for the price, themselves.

Yamaha WXA-50 isn't that much more expensive than this considering what it includes. It also performs reasonably well and Yamaha has service centers so you don't need to ship to China on your dime for repairs. The price is not cheap for what you get here.
 

Bruce Morgen

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There is a big difference in mechanical and casework design, not speaking about basic differences between the class AB and D. This small thing is not designed as an adult amplifier and has a lot of quality standards controversy.

The AHB2 is not a Class AB product. It is also a far more complex design than the PA5 with many more/larger components, thus requiring far more elaborate physical engineering. None of this makes your "not designed as an adult amplifier" surmise any less laughable -- the only performance aspect in which the AHB2 is significantly superior is power, but if that disqualifies the PA5 from "adult amplifier" status, then this thing is also disqualified from that designation.
IMG_5344_1799x780[1].jpg
 

gvl

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^^ I beg to differ, that's a "senior amplifier" status.
 

xrk971

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I didn't read the whole thread, so thanks for pointing to that. However XRK is based in DC, so his assessment can be a bit skewed considering Topping is a fully Chinese operation.
My assessment is based on price of components, whether or not they are bought from China or USA, plus 3x markup from cost to build. I have products that are assembled in China so familiar with production costs there.

Basically, the PA5 has about $80 in components above a normal $100 Chinese made TPA3255. 3x $80 is $240 plus $100 is $340. Maybe they can take a 2x markup, in which case it is $160 plus $100 or $260.

The perception of value has a lot to do with size, fit and finish, and design. These are all important and give the product it’s user experience. None of which affects the sound quality. The problem is that Topping made it small to be the same size as their line of DACs and balanced preamp so that it can be stacked as a system. Making a high performance amp the same size as a $100 DAC case puts the amp at a great disadvantage from the optics of being a “toy amp” as we are hearing.

Stick this amp in a 15lb CNC chassis and have an internal PSU with IEC inlet and it will sell for $2000.
 
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gvl

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My assessment is based on price of components, whether or not they are bought from China or USA, plus 3x markup from cost to build. I have products that are assembled in China so familiar with production costs there.

Basically, the PA5 has about $80 in components above a normal $100 Chinese made TPA3255. 3x $80 is $240 plus $100 is $340. Maybe they can take a 2x markup, in which case it is $160 plus $100 or $260.

$260 is where it feels it should be.
 

Bruce Morgen

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It's no small AHB2, it's a good Class-D chip amp from China (for the cost of manufacture POV and warranty service logistics) that should cost $50-100 less.

Your "should" is not based on the supply chain and market realities involved. No, a PA5 is not nearly as complex and visually impressive as an AHB2, but aside from power -- mostly a chip and PSU limitation -- its performance is competitive for a fraction of the cost. Do you buy power amps that deliver the appropriate level of performance for the application at hand or do you also insist they look like what you think an amp "should?"

Disclaimer: I have no personal use for a PA5 -- or, for that matter, an AHB2.
 

voodooless

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Regarding price… just wait a bit. Others will follow now it’s clear there is more performance to be had. Prices will drop as a consequence. I won’t comment on component quality or genuineness though ;)
 

Mark

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The Topping PA5 will be fine. According to Amir's LS50 Meta review (see link below), its distortion level at 96 dB SPL is already quite high. That's 31 W (at the 4 ohm nominal impedance) input. Therefore the PA5 has sufficient power to drive the LS50 Meta to its maximum usable SPL.

Thanks a lot.
I read in Amir’s review that the sensitivity of the Kef LS50 Meta is 93db instead of the 95db stated in the specs.

Will the Topping PA5 the still be sufficient to reach the 96db (the level at which the Kef’s start to distort)?

Double checking as Amir writes that the Kef LS50 Meta’s need a beefy amplifier to drive them.

96db would by the way be sufficient for my listening purposes (mainly background in kitchen).

Thanks for your help!
 

Bruce Morgen

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What is it then?

It uses some sort of multi-class amp technology much like Class H -- there no way in he|| it could be as small and cool-running as it is if it were a strictly Class AB design.
 
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gvl

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It uses some sort of multi-class amp technology -- there no way in he|| it could be as small and cool-running as it is if it were a strictly Class AB design.

It is AB at its core with some smarts.
 
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