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Realistic Sounding Speakers

Discussion in 'Speakers and Room Acoustics' started by noobie1, Jun 8, 2017.

  1. Sal1950

    Sal1950 Major Contributor The Chicago Crusher

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    Times like this I do so wish I was able to get more members involved in detailing their rigs in the Members Area. We have so many really incredible and intelligently designed stereo and multi channel systems I don't understand the reluctance to show them off. :(
     
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  2. Thomas savage

    Thomas savage Moderator Moderator The Watchman

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    Well I got a shed load of crap so that's why I'm not there...

    But yes, given we are a audiophile ( science) forum we should all detail our own gear.
     
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  3. DonH56

    DonH56 Addicted to Fun and Learning Industry Expert

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    Very, very few speakers can produce the low frequencies with low distortion that a good subwoofer can IME/IMO. That said, my Rythmiks are sealed, and working together in my small'ish room are -3 dB around 7 Hz. While it is true output falls off faster below tune with ported, they generally offer more output and thus lower distortion for the same output as sealed above the tuning frequency. My subs also use a servo control to help extend their response and keep their distortion low.
     
  4. Blumlein 88

    Blumlein 88 Major Contributor

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    In other forums instead of the idea you state, which is a good reason, this devolved into a credential of who spent the most money. It would sometimes be used to imply someone else's idea was no good because their gear wasn't the most expensive. While bad ideas were given credence just because some bozo's hair brained thinking was connected to a six figure system. Now you can have good and bad ideas with all the above. Certainly having crappy gear doesn't automatically make ideas good. That system detailing just became distasteful to me over time.
     
  5. RayDunzl

    RayDunzl Major Contributor Central Scrutinizer

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    I have the only home system I know of that paid for itself. Does that count?
     
  6. Purité Audio

    Purité Audio Major Contributor Industry Insider Barrowmaster

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    Does it do a paper round?
    Keith
     
  7. Sal1950

    Sal1950 Major Contributor The Chicago Crusher

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    That's other forums. We have hoped and worked for something a little different here to separate us from the delusional rambling of the audiophools.
    My system is probably at or near the bottom of the $ tree here. Much like Rays a major portion of which was obtained from the used market. But I don't give a dang what anyone else chooses to read into it. It's fully detailed both here and at CA, and a number of other audio sites. Let the chips fall where they may. ;)
     
  8. RayDunzl

    RayDunzl Major Contributor Central Scrutinizer

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    Pay Per Round? Pay Per Play?

    No...

    My setup is power hungry (plasma TV - 200+ watts - and Krell - 280 Watts idling), and makes heat (more air conditioning expense), so I looked at Solar briefly, decided it is a big illiquid investment with a long pay-back period at which time the system lifespan is likely over and would need major refurbishments, so I parked roughly the same amount of money in the local utility (TECO) stock, 5% dividends paid the entire electric bill right away (well, quarterly), then the Utility was bought out by Canadians (Emera), and I got a surprise capital gain of a little over $20,000, which covers a lot of my past gear purchases.

    Moved some of that money to Emera Stock for their dividends to pay the bill, but found I have to pay Foreign Tax on the dividends, so, may rethink that little strategy. Currently have a little gain on that investment (plus dividends to pay the electric bill).

    upload_2017-6-10_17-9-46.png upload_2017-6-10_17-12-58.png

    http://www.tampabay.com/news/busine...isition-of-teco-energy-to-close-today/2283757

    So, in my mind, because the system is inefficient, I decided to hedge the operating expense, and got lucky on that exposure.

    Therefore, this system paid for itself (and then some).

    Estimate of the split between general electrical use and the Air Conditioning in watt hours per day (by week) for the last year:

    upload_2017-6-10_17-22-38.png

    Seven years coal-fired (and they have some gas turbines now, too, and are building solar farms) electrical usage:

    upload_2017-6-10_17-36-7.png

    Ok, I'm warming the Earth, just doing my part... On the other hand, I don't drive much, so, maybe I'm more green than average.
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2017
  9. oivavoi

    oivavoi Senior Member

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    To the OP: I would advise you to audition a pair of omnidirectional speakers. MBL, Duevel, German Physiks, or others. The Omni concept is not to everyone's liking, and is often implemented in a sub-optimal way. Still; try to hear a pair and see what you think.
     
  10. noobie1

    noobie1 Member

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    Thanks for the suggestion. I actually listened to German Physyks Borderland IV and liked in quite a bit. I just feel like if I'm gonna spend $37k I may as well go all the way and spend $58k on the Magico's. I'm looking at different demos in my area to see what other brands can offer.
     
  11. noobie1

    noobie1 Member

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    I tried Dirac live demo and used the filter that it generated. Didn't notice any difference. I'm planning to play around with it a little more.
     
  12. oivavoi

    oivavoi Senior Member

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    Ok, cool. Just be aware that the acoustics of the room where you audition them will make an impact. They will probably not sound exactly the same to your ears at your own place.

    I can completely relate to your expression about "swimming in sound" btw. I have the same preference, maybe because I'm active as a musician in my spare time and I want to recreate that feeling of being inside the music when I'm listening. The key has already been mentioned: it's about dispersion. Or rather, it's about filling the whole room with a completely even sound field.

    I've done a fair bit of research on this exact topic, and I've figured out that there are basically three types of speakers which can accomplish this:
    - omnis, as mentioned
    - CBT line arrays - Google it together with the name of the inventor, Don Keele
    - really big horns, perhaps placed in two corners

    Those speaker designs are very different from each other though. For big horns, your best alternative might be the Klispch Jubilee. I'm partial to omnis myself, but all of these speaker designs (or "half-omnis" like the Beolab 5 from B&O) can provide an even sound field that fills the entire room.

    I've never heard the Magicos. I'm sure they are excellent speakers. But based on their design and dispersion pattern, they are not the kind of speakers I would expect a priori to give me a "swimming in sound" excperience. How was the venue where you auditioned them? If the acoustics were excellent, with a pleasant diffuse and reflective sound field, that might also be a reason for why you liked them so much - not only the speakers themselves.
     
  13. The Smokester

    The Smokester Member

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  14. dallasjustice

    dallasjustice Addicted to Fun and Learning

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    My biased opinions based on my direct experience:

    The Linkwitz lx521.4 is a great one.

    Any Revel speaker and a few JBL speakers are great.

    Magico is overrated. Same basic design repeated over and over for more than a decade. Basically the same formula for Wilson, YG and many other brands is to roll out the same design year after year. There's no research or new discoveries being made with most speaker manufacturers.

    Vivid is great but not designed for real world reliability.

    Normal sized sealed speakers have no bass and no dynamix.

    All stereo playback systems require subwoofers for proper bass reproduction because almost all rooms prohibit complete/full range bass at the seated positions. If you fight physics, you'll lose. I've tried.

    Omni speakers are a gimmick that gets old after a while. Maybe they'd be okay for certain genres. But it's not good for all types of music. MBLs have poorly integrated bass.

    The only ESL to consider is Quad. I love them. BUT there's no dynamics. I can't say they're great for all types of music. They also require a larger room.
     
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  15. DonH56

    DonH56 Addicted to Fun and Learning Industry Expert

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    Martin Logan has greatly improved woofer integration the past few years. Sanders also makes good ESLs, and of course there's SoundLab and Janszen is still around. Somehow I've never been much of a Quad fan. Different strokes... Ditto omni's; impressive at first but gets old quickly (note I damp the back wave of my dipoles). Of course, I've switched over to Revel and really like them. Quite a change.
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2017 at 1:45 PM
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  16. Blumlein 88

    Blumlein 88 Major Contributor

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    Which Quads? The old 57 models (I had a pair for awhile). The ESL63s (I had a pair for a decade). The new copies of the 63's or the bigger doubled-up copy of the 63's?

    BTW, I wish someone would use the delay principle that the ESL63's did, only in a large floor to ceiling design as a line source with the delay side to side. I think it would have all the nice qualities of the 63s and more dynamics, and perhaps less interaction with the room being a line source. Or maybe a point source is just better.
     
  17. Purité Audio

    Purité Audio Major Contributor Industry Insider Barrowmaster

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    These, if the measurements for them are credible,
    https://dutchdutch.com/8c
    Arriving today, after quite a long wait!
    Keith
     
  18. oivavoi

    oivavoi Senior Member

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    To me, omnis and dipoles are the only speakers that dont sound like speakers. That's the best way I would put it. All other speakers sound like speakers. This is even more true for acoustic music. For electronic music, there is no real-life reference to compare to. But most dipoles only sound like non-speakers in the sweetspot, whereas omnis are less restricted in that regard. But I certainly think that omnis are not for everyone, so I would never advise anyone to buy omnis without very thorough auditioning first.
     
  19. Purité Audio

    Purité Audio Major Contributor Industry Insider Barrowmaster

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    Omnis and dipoles would be at the very bottom on my 'most wanted' speaker list, they might have to fight single driver 'full-range' for very last place however.
    Although the Beolab 90's 'omni' mode would be good for parties .
    Keith
     
  20. dallasjustice

    dallasjustice Addicted to Fun and Learning

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    I've spent extended listening time with the quad 2912. I've heard it at a local dealer in a big room. I've also heard it at a show. It also uses the delay line design. I don't understand why other LARGE ESLs don't also do something to improve the time domain problems that plague large panel speakers. I still think Quad is different from the rest.
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2017 at 12:29 PM

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