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New Dynaudio LYD 48: Active 3-way DSP X-over

Cosmik

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Seems like a missed opportunity to 'go active' and yet retain the port.
 
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watchnerd

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Just audutioned briefly the smaller sibling in the Dynaudio Lyd family, the Lyd 7. Was actually quite disappointed. Sounded somewhat tinny in the higher frequencies, and a bit compressed all over. Compared it A/B to Eve SC 207. The Eve were in a completely different ballpark, IMO.

But this was a brief audition. So my impressions might be off. If not, it might be about the ribbon tweeters in the Eve, and the somewhat bigger enclosure.

Interesting, as most of the pro audio sites prefer the 5 and 7 to the 8. Of course the 48 is a 3-way, and tri-amped, so a completely different animal.

But if you like the AMT tweeter (it's not actually a ribbon), the Eve is the way to go. Personally I'm used to soft domes.
 

oivavoi

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Interesting, as most of the pro audio sites prefer the 5 and 7 to the 8. Of course the 48 is a 3-way, and tri-amped, so a completely different animal.

But if you like the AMT tweeter (it's not actually a ribbon), the Eve is the way to go. Personally I'm used to soft domes.

My current AVI-monitors have soft domes too, and I dont perceive them as tinny or artificial at all. As said, this was a brief audition. But in spite of how much I wanted to like the Lyd 7, they didn't do it for me at this occasion.
 
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watchnerd

watchnerd

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My current AVI-monitors have soft domes too, and I dont perceive them as tinny or artificial at all. As said, this was a brief audition. But in spite of how much I wanted to like the Lyd 7, they didn't do it for me at this occasion.

I find it interesting because the Dynaudio tweeters are usually accused of leaning towards being too dark and / or mellow.

Do you know how the tilt filter on the back was set?
 

oivavoi

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I find it interesting because the Dynaudio tweeters are usually accused of leaning towards being too dark and / or mellow.

Do you know how the tilt filter on the back was set?

Nope. Didn't think to check for that. But I didn't perceive them as too bright. Maybe "tinny" is the wrong word. I basically perceived the overall presentation as slightly artificial. They didn't sound "right" on acoustic music. Lacking proper measurements and/or controlled listening, I don't know whether that's a valid assessment or not.
 
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watchnerd

watchnerd

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Nope. Didn't think to check for that. But I didn't perceive them as too bright. Maybe "tinny" is the wrong word. I basically perceived the overall presentation as slightly artificial. They didn't sound "right" on acoustic music. Lacking proper measurements and/or controlled listening, I don't know whether that's a valid assessment or not.

If I were a digiphobe, I would accuse the DSP crossover and Class D / PWM amps. But, then again, Eve Audio also uses DSP crossovers and PWM amps...
 

oivavoi

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If I were a digiphobe, I would accuse the DSP crossover and Class D / PWM amps. But, then again, Eve Audio also uses DSP crossovers and PWM amps...

Hehe:) Well, loudspeakers just sound different, being mechanical devices that have to do lots of complicated and difficult tasks. I don't think we know everything there is to know about loudspeakers yet.
That being said, it MIGHT have to do with the DSP actually. It's at least a possible hypothesis - of course, given that we accept my listening impressions as a valid data point. There is some research which claims that FIR filters can have more audible artifacts than IIR-filters. I'll try to find the articles I'm thinking of later. I think the Lyd series uses FIR filters?
 
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watchnerd

watchnerd

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Hehe:) Well, loudspeakers just sound different, being mechanical devices that have to do lots of complicated and difficult tasks. I don't think we know everything there is to know about loudspeakers yet.
That being said, it MIGHT have to do with the DSP actually. It's at least a possible hypothesis - of course, given that we accept my listening impressions as a valid data point. There is some research which claims that FIR filters can have more audible artifacts than IIR-filters. I'll try to find the articles I'm thinking of later. I think the Lyd series uses FIR filters?

I don't think I've ever read whether the LYD use FIR or IIR.

But it's got to be something more than just a digitally implemented x6db/octave crossover, because of the tilt control, the boundary adjustment, and the "make it sound the same at all volumes" feature, which to me sounds like some kind of automatic / dynamic loudness compensation.
 

oivavoi

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Interesting. It could be about that as well. Or, IDK, maybe it's about preferences and what one is used to. I didn't fall head over heels in love with the Kii Three's either, FWIW. Sure, the Kii's sounded very good. But to my ears, they also sounded a little bit dull. In the case of Kii's, just like with the Dynaudio's, this was not what I expected to hear. Maybe it's something with the DSP that actually affects the sound in some way. Or that the drivers can't compete with the very best drivers out there. Or the fact that they are both white and rather small? I would assume that simple visual cues like those actually can influence sound perception. I don't mean it as a joke. I'm pretty sure my listening impressions are biased by those kind of things.
 
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watchnerd

watchnerd

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Interesting. It could be about that as well. Or, IDK, maybe it's about preferences and what one is used to. I didn't fall head over heels in love with the Kii Three's either, FWIW. Sure, the Kii's sounded very good. But to my ears, they also sounded a little bit dull. In the case of Kii's, just like with the Dynaudio's, this was not what I expected to hear. Maybe it's something with the DSP that actually affects the sound in some way. Or that the drivers can't compete with the very best drivers out there. Or the fact that they are both white and rather small? I would assume that simple visual cues like those actually can influence sound perception. I don't mean it as a joke. I'm pretty sure my listening impressions are biased by those kind of things.

This brings up two interesting points:

1. There is a design philosophy that believes that DSP + mid-grade drivers beats analog crossovers + best in class drivers. I believe @Cosmik has some inclinations in that direction.

2. Someone actually did a study on speaker color years ago and darker colored speakers were perceived to be more powerful and deep.
 

Cosmik

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1. There is a design philosophy that believes that DSP + mid-grade drivers beats analog crossovers + best in class drivers. I believe @Cosmik has some inclinations in that direction.
I certainly do. At the end of the day, the cost of top-of-the-range drivers is nothing in comparison to typical audiophile budgets or the effort of building your own speakers, so it's not important in itself. But I can honestly say that I would take DSP+ mid-grade over analog+diamond/beryllium/unobtainium without hesitation.
 

March Audio

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I think the KEF LS-50 is a very bold product that will sell well.

However, I also think it's an "audiophile lifestyle product" (I would put the Dynaudio Focus XD in the same bucket), geared towards a box-less all-in-one experience.

For me, I don't prefer that architecture for a few reasons:

1. Software hard-coupled to the speaker. I prefer a "best of breed" approach. I don't expect speaker makers to be on the cutting edge of digital playback software. It's not their core competency. Upgrades are a concern.

2. I have analog sources (turntable). I don't mind the AD conversion, but I would prefer XLR input.

That being said, I've heard both the KEF LS-50 Wireless and the Dynaudio Focus XD series and they both sound good. I would definitely recommend them to those who prioritize 'all in one' higher than I do.

Not sure I share your concern regarding speaker manufacturers core competwnce.

In built Amp with digital crossover is the way to go as far as I am concerned. It addresses so many issues.

Why cant a speaker manufacturer acquire the relevant competence in dsp and electronics?
 
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watchnerd

watchnerd

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Not sure I share your concern regarding speaker manufacturers core competwnce.

In built Amp with digital crossover is the way to go as far as I am concerned. It addresses so many issues.

Why cant a speaker manufacturer acquire the relevant competence in dsp and electronics?

I'm not concerned DSP and electronics. That's well within their wheel house.

It's the support for playback software - Tidal, Spotify, Roon, Airplay, apps for iOS/Android.

The fact that so many ship with stillborn DLNA validates my fear.
 

March Audio

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I'm not concerned DSP and electronics. That's well within their wheel house.

It's the support for playback software - Tidal, Spotify, Roon, Airplay, apps for iOS/Android.

The fact that so many ship with stillborn DLNA validates my fear.

So long as the speaker has a spdif/aes/analogue input there is no issue, you can connect whatever front end you like.

However, so many products these days are software based that I don't really see it as an issue. Having good functionality, "lifestyle", shouldn't necessarily be taken in a negative context. It isn't necessarily mutually exclusive with good sounding equipment.

DLNA isn't still born, its used in many applications and has been around for a very long time. I have previously used it in a jriver solution, it works. Roon is better. Software and formats will continually move on. Fact of life. A dsp active speaker with Roon functionality is an excellent solution as far as I am concerned.
 
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watchnerd

watchnerd

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A dsp active speaker with Roon functionality is an excellent solution as far as I am concerned.

I agree, but the only ones I know of are little Sonos-esque things. I don't know of any hi fi stereo speakers that are Roon Ready.
 

edd9000

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I certainly do. At the end of the day, the cost of top-of-the-range drivers is nothing in comparison to typical audiophile budgets or the effort of building your own speakers, so it's not important in itself. But I can honestly say that I would take DSP+ mid-grade over analog+diamond/beryllium/unobtainium without hesitation.

In some cases I prefer the mid range drivers, paper cones and the like, as their issues are often easier to deal with in DSP, and they don't have crazy resonance spikes at break up.
 
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