Is this DAC good enough?

[oivavoi]

Aight, a question: I need a dac/preamp with balanced out for my new setup. In the best of all worlds it will also have a headphone output. And it needs to have a remote and a volume control. Not in a hurry, but have started looking.

The emotiva stealth dc-1 is the obvious choice, of course. The question is: How cheap can you go? I've come across this dac for sale locally, Citypulse Da-7.2X:
http://www.soundlabsgroup.com.au/p/Citypulse-DA72x/Citypulse+Audio+DA-7.2x+DAC

Has all the functionality I need. Probably produced in 2007/2008. A brand from Hong Kong. But is there any reason to believe that there could in fact be audible differences between this one and the DC-1, for example? Even though I believe DACs to be mostly audibly transparent, I won't discard out of hand that there might be audible differences between a older unit and the good ones that are produced now.

Another option is to find a used Oppo 105, since that would save me a lot of boxes. Dac, pre-amp and DVD/CD-player, all in one.

 

[oivavoi]

And for context: It's probably going to be a pair of excellent speakers with very low distortion, driven actively by hypex amps. So I'm willing to invest a little bit more if there is indeed reason to believe that there might be audible differences.

 

[Blumlein 88]

I have used the Stealth and it is excellent. Other than that I can't provide any good input for you unfortunately. The frequency response spec looks a little suspect for the city pulse.

20hz-58khz +/- 1.5 db. The Stealth is 20-70 khz +/- .1 db.

Now is the City pulse really flat at 0 db falling to - 3db at 20 hz and 58 khz. That might indicate a very slightly soft low and top end in direct comparison with the Stealth. Some very minor effects would extend to 200 hz and as low as 7000 hz on the other end for the Citypulse if those are really just -3db points.

You might also want to consider some of the similarly priced Teac Dacs. I haven't used them, but those who have seem pleased and they look to be good on paper.
https://www.amazon.com/Teac-UD-503-B-Dual-Monaural-Headphone-Amplifier/dp/B0179XNQUQ
https://www.amazon.com/Teac-UD-301-...F8&qid=1486417091&sr=1-1&keywords=teac+ud+301

 

[RayDunzl]

Looking at the results posted for the $20 DACs raises some red flags for other no-name efforts.

 

[amirm]

It looks pretty beefy inside. How much are they asking for it?

 

[oivavoi]

It looks pretty beefy inside. How much are they asking for it?

242 USD. Guess I'll be able to get it for around 180. Bear in mind that prices for electronics are generally higher in Norway than the U.S.

 

[oivavoi]

I have used the Stealth and it is excellent. Other than that I can't provide any good input for you unfortunately. The frequency response spec looks a little suspect for the city pulse.

20hz-58khz +/- 1.5 db. The Stealth is 20-70 khz +/- .1 db.

Now is the City pulse really flat at 0 db falling to - 3db at 20 hz and 58 khz. That might indicate a very slightly soft low and top end in direct comparison with the Stealth. Some very minor effects would extend to 200 hz and as low as 7000 hz on the other end for the Citypulse if those are really just -3db points.

You might also want to consider some of the similarly priced Teac Dacs. I haven't used them, but those who have seem pleased and they look to be good on paper.
https://www.amazon.com/Teac-UD-503-B-Dual-Monaural-Headphone-Amplifier/dp/B0179XNQUQ
https://www.amazon.com/Teac-UD-301-...F8&qid=1486417091&sr=1-1&keywords=teac+ud+301

Thanks. Excellent feedback and advice.

 

[oivavoi]

Update: Just found out that the volume control doesn't work on the balanced outs, only on the unbalanced. So then it doesn't work in any case. The hunt continues.

 

[RayDunzl]

Is this for your main system, or something else?

 

[oivavoi]

Is this for your main system, or something else?

Main system. Will probably get it up and running in some months. Now I'm trying to find the equipment I will need on the cheap. (but still of decent quality)

 

[watchnerd]

Aight, a question: I need a dac/preamp with balanced out for my new setup. In the best of all worlds it will also have a headphone output. And it needs to have a remote and a volume control. Not in a hurry, but have started looking.

The emotiva stealth dc-1 is the obvious choice, of course. The question is: How cheap can you go? I've come across this dac for sale locally, Citypulse Da-7.2X:
http://www.soundlabsgroup.com.au/p/Citypulse-DA72x/Citypulse+Audio+DA-7.2x+DAC

Here's my bitch about that DAC, and it's a somewhat pedantic and perfectionist point:

It has balanced outputs, but from what I can tell, it doesn't actually use a balanced DAC chip configuration. A truly-differential-back-to-the-chip implementation uses either 4 mono chips or 2 stereo chips to get the 4 phases necessary for fully differential balanced operation.

I don't know how much that DAC costs, but the TEAC Reference series DACs are fully differential, balanced, dual-mono DACs and range in price from $300 for the last generation model to $700-900 for the latest models.

Also, no reference to independent 44.1khz and 48khz clock oscillators, which, again is me being a perfectionist butthole, but even my HifFiBerry Digi+ Pro, for a whopping $44.90, has dual oscillators.

The analog stage looks beefy, though, which is great to see.

 

[RayDunzl]

It has balanced outputs, but from what I can tell, it doesn't actually use a balanced DAC chip configuration. A truly-differential-back-to-the-chip implementation uses either 4 mono chips or 2 stereo chips to get the 4 phases necessary for fully differential balanced operation.

How about the differential outputs for each DAC channel on-chip?

 

[watchnerd]

How about the differential outputs for each DAC channel on-chip?

View attachment 5471

Sure, that works.

And...apparently the 1796 uses this as well....

Dagnabbit, should have looked at the pinouts.

 

[RayDunzl]

The analog stage looks beefy, though, which is great to see.

I take it you aren't a fan of opamp output line drivers?

http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/lme49860.pdf

Benchmark DAC2 HGC

 

[watchnerd]

I take it you aren't a fan of opamp output line drivers?

http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/lme49860.pdf

Benchmark DAC2 HGC

I have class D mono blocks, so I'm fine in a post-toroid world.

 

[Cosmik]

Without knowing more about it, wouldn't you always be wondering about its 'pedigree'? It's the really mundane stuff: does it have an adequate PCB design, multi-layer with ground planes; is every chip decoupled with a cap; does it generate a horrible thump at power up/down; might they have they used components from untraceable sources that might not even be what they say they are; does it have DC biases at the outputs (I have seen this). Anyone can wire up a chip from a data sheet so it more-or-less works electrically, but in the absence of more information I would personally go for a 'known' company like Teac.

 

[oivavoi]

Thanks for your useful input.

On a sidenote: Sometimes, if I need to buy a wine and I have no idea which one to choose, I go for the one with the label I like the most. For some reason, I might assume that a wine with a picture of a moose tastes better than a wine with a picture of a goose. And when it comes to the Teac 301 and the Emotiva DC-1: Based purely on the the look of the intestines of these, my gut feeling tells me to go for the model from Teac.

Emotiva:

Teac:

 

[Jinjuku]

Update: Just found out that the volume control doesn't work on the balanced outs, only on the unbalanced. So then it doesn't work in any case. The hunt continues.

Is this for the DC-1? If so the volume does work on the balanced outputs.

I've heard the Teac 501 (but it's not having a remote was a deal breaker for me). Great DAC and if you are into DSD one to consider. The 503 is current.

I've A/B'd my DC-1 directly against the Bel Canto 2.5 at $2400. They were both equally good. I think past the $500 mark you are wasting money. I picked up the DC-1 from Craiglist, basically new in box, for $300.

 

[Jinjuku]

Thanks for your useful input.

On a sidenote: Sometimes, if I need to buy a wine and I have no idea which one to choose, I go for the one with the label I like the most. For some reason, I might assume that a wine with a picture of a moose tastes better than a wine with a picture of a goose. And when it comes to the Teac 301 and the Emotiva DC-1: Based purely on the the look of the intestines of these, my gut feeling tells me to go for the model from Teac.

Emotiva:

Teac:

???(!) What in the pic of the TEAC leads you to believe it has a higher build quality? The DC-1 easily wins hands down on the internal pic layout. Emotiva is actually using relays on the outputs. Those are $2 a pop. That's something considering the cost of the DC-1. Also the power supply is on a separate PCB.

The TEAC's a great DAC but there is a lot more interconnected componentry going on. Daughter card PCB's, Ribbon cables, 4 other multi-conductor cables. The power supply section doesn't look as overbuilt as the DC-1 either.

 

[watchnerd]

Is this for the DC-1? If so the volume does work on the balanced outputs.

I've heard the Teac 501 (but it's not having a remote was a deal breaker for me). Great DAC and if you are into DSD one to consider. The 503 is current.

I've A/B'd my DC-1 directly against the Bel Canto 2.5 at $2400. They were both equally good. I think past the $500 mark you are wasting money. I picked up the DC-1 from Craiglist, basically new in box, for $300.

I ordered one of these to stick inside my miniDSP OpenDRC. Balanced out, $75. $5 extra if you want the matching back plate. We'll see how it does for $80.