Entreq "signal grounding" Measurements

[March Audio]

Dear All
I have an email, this morning so I replied.
I did not know it was automatic mail for someone replied my post
Here is what I replied to Amirm

Dear Amirm
Thank you for replying me and the attempt to give explanation. I presume that I understand your theory. However, what you have measure which if it is correct as it is that Entreq add noise to your measuring device. Then that noise floor should be audible what so ever in your Hi-fi system. Unless You never try on your Hi-fi system but only testing the box with device. Because, if Entreq doesn't ground and only are some wiring cable and box that connect to your hi-fi system, then it should at least audible either beneficial to your listening or not. This obviously contradicting within your own content. Unless what you are measuring outcome to be indifferent either hooking Entreq box or not result are the same(nothing happen). Only this way your content would not be contradicting within itself.
But please don't get me wrong I just pointing out thing that doesn't seem right. Also theory is just theory.
The result point out that there is something changed (adding some kind of noise) However, when connect to an audio system there is no different. Well I think you should at least point out that you can audit some level increase of noise floor as the same as you measured device tells you. Otherwise, it is pretty much contradicting.

Thank You
SN
And I never find any car audio any fidelity.

Dear BE718
As I have mentioned before that the previous post was only one of many things I can share about grounding objects. The point is I understand how it works not in term of magic.(About "magic" non of us mentioning it, Only you who have mentioned and I would be appreciated if you can define the word "magic" for this particular forum or at least in general or how you intend to use it)

It might not be "magic" word of yours. I see it in term of Energy flowing within our Universe.

How this Entreq Box work?, I only can presume from my knowledge because I am sure there are more secret into this Entreq Ground Box.
1st Stage) Electric Energy (Stray Current or Switching Current within your audio components), Going through the Entreq grounding cable, then as they hit the Box, the Electric energy start to run around within the Box, this stage the Electric energy changing into Kinetic Energy (Moving Energy),
2nd Stage) Once the Kinetic Energy keep moving faster and faster within the Box, the Kinetic Energy will transform into Thermo Energy (little heat) and finally the excessive energy are used up.
That is how "Entreq - Energy Transforming Equipment" does thing as it said right in the front of itself.
(And this short grounding path is draining away stray currents much faster than regular standard home grounding, it is fast enough to drain away all stray current before it effect the performance of your audio equipments.)

By Draining out stray current within your audio components, which attract all kind of EMI and RFI into itself (the stray current is the home of these noise) once this happen the EMI and RFI will cover the clear flowing of all signal path within your audio component. Therefore, if you hooking up an Entreq ground box as it's instruction correctly, You might hear some amazing sonic performance from you HiFi system.
Frankly, I am not a man at material level, but at Energy Perspective Level.

Have you ever considered Why a Pre-Amp + Power Amp?? Why people in the old time design this sort of things?
It is because Power Amplifier is only to amplifying the signal. The correct designed Power Amplifier must only have one switch. Which is ON/OFF switch. For the input selector must not be relay and must be manual. Otherwise, this will trigger the switching current within your audio component. Your audio circuit board will pretty soon be full of stray current which draw unwanted signal/Noise from around the area.
So, Grounding your audio components should be a good idea. And yes I agree with Amirm the shorter the ground cable (path) is the lower the noise floor. As mention before, the clean current of both inflow/outflow directly effect the outcome of sonic performance of your Hi-Fi system.

A lot of people are being fascinated by HiFi system because, whatever change you make to it, the sound will alter, having wood as an audio board, or pure quartz will give so much different in sonic outcome.(I believe, somehow it might be similar to a theory "Strings Theory" where everything in this Universe is vibration).
I think a Hi-Fi system simply is a system that transform electric energy into sonic energy, isn't it? (If you are looking at a bigger picture)

The best a Hi-Fi system at any given price level can do is to carry the source's signal and delivering them as it is (as losing it as few as possible).

Best of all, trying things for yourself and you will see.

I want to share something I think more or less beneficial to anyone, and also I want to learn things from any one as well.
Thank You everyone who replied
Great Health, Great Wealth to We all!!
SN

With the greatest of respect your explanations above are not consistent with known and proven electrical theory. I have spent decades working in instrumentation and measurement acquiring and analysing signals that are, in no relevant way, different to audio. Having to ensure those signal measurements are accurate and free from noise and spurious signals. It really doesn't work the way you imagine. Imagination is all you have there.

Sorry.

 

[Fitzcaraldo215]

Bingo, technically! I'd avoid the wireless, unless you can come up with some special, grounding WiFi routers to sell. Shouldn't be hard. But, fiberoptic grounding wires, brilliant!

Stupid me. This is for audiophiles, right? So, as long as we keep it away from that evil, spoil sport Amir and his measurements, the wireless does not actually have to work. We just need to make audiophiles think it does, and nobody will know. They will hear things they never heard before with the system in place. Plant a few raving testimonials on WBF and we are golden.

So, we just need to fabricate little plastic antennas on top of little boxes with our wires attached. Connect those to each of the audio components plus our main box, and ka-ching, I can hear the money rolling in. We just need to cram something that looks like electronics inside our little boxes. Maybe a battery and an LED, too. We can sell people marked up replacement batteries.

 

[Shinfox1980]

Dear BE718,
Can you at least explain some specific example, apart from boosting yourself as a decade of experience man? A 5 years old kid could say the same thing as you have just said. I will take my words back if you have better logical explanation in specific detail than what I have written. And Of Course a convincing knowledge and facts that proving my idea is only Imagination. Otherwise, I just seeing you as person who argues without fact but counter with your profile which has nothing to do with the topic at all. A decade of instrumentation and measurement and signal and etc could mean a decade of blindness in your own world as well. (Not consistent with proven electrical theory? Can you mention it, which theory? So, please tell me what is right then?) As I mentioned before, I can give another 100 pages long of energy idea with proper explanation. I am a man of my word, I am confident with myself. I am not a lacking confident man who still have to refer to something in order to make his own word sound convincing?? An esteem child with a common sense and reasonable words can do much better than this.
Thank You But many 5-8 Years old kids living around my area talking more sense than you.

I only can suggest that you should try whatever thing on your own with your own ears own eyes own experience. Do not assume, or predict them as you are already know it. Because as soon as you do so, you are having attitude of refusing to learn, to absorb new knowledge, new idea. Of Course, this is just my opinion.
We human really have little knowledge about universe, there is not just only one right path. But, to every of us able to develop a new knowledge, a better idea for Tomorrow. As soon as something new is discovered the old theory would be only a history.
And I am not saying that what you said it not right. It might be true and correct and I am trying to take your words into my consideration. However, if you only provide information that you know about what you say, and you are right, I am wrong, without at least 2-3 sentence of explanation of proving my idea isn't correct. At least bring some fact and logical idea into your paragraph. Otherwise, how can I look for information to account into my consideration.
We are parts of the Universe, well it might be more correct to say everything that exists within this Universe are parts of it. We cannot separate them. We all are under law of physic which one day everything might turn around if something new could be discovered. Also, Imagination is much more important than the knowledge, If I remember correctly this phase come from Albert E. But of course I studied intensively about what I have written but, it might be because I have not give full explanation with more detail just yet
Thank You and If I bother you guys, I might better find other places for my enjoyment of discussion.
Best of Luck to everyone!!
SN

 

[DonH56]

Imagination is much more important than the knowledge...

I do not believe any other knowledge is possible nor required given this as basis.

 

[amirm]

Thank You and If I bother you guys, I might better find other places for my enjoyment of discussion.

You are not bothering us at all.

 

[Sal1950]

Otherwise, I just seeing you as person who argues without fact

It is you who argues without fact. You only talk about a sighted delusion of what you "think" you heard without any supporting evidence in the slightest. Please supply the source of the engineering science that backs your claims. Or the results of bias controlled blind listening tests that support audibility of magic dust devices you so covet. And if a difference can actually be shown, provide the supporting evidence that the difference is really a increase in accurate reproduction and not just some pleasant distortion.
5 year old children (and some older folks) sincerely believe the magician made the Boeing 747 disappear off the runway, after all they saw it. The human mind is the easiest thing in existence to confound. Believed experience must be held to a higher standard than what the senses can supply.
Step back from your fantasy world and get in tune with the reality of known science.
There is no Santa Claus my friend.

 

[Old Listener]

"Also, Imagination is much more important than the knowledge".

Sounds like high-end audio to me.

 

[March Audio]

Dear BE718,
Can you at least explain some specific example, apart from boosting yourself as a decade of experience man? A 5 years old kid could say the same thing as you have just said. I will take my words back if you have better logical explanation in specific detail than what I have written. And Of Course a convincing knowledge and facts that proving my idea is only Imagination. Otherwise, I just seeing you as person who argues without fact but counter with your profile which has nothing to do with the topic at all. A decade of instrumentation and measurement and signal and etc could mean a decade of blindness in your own world as well. (Not consistent with proven electrical theory? Can you mention it, which theory? So, please tell me what is right then?) As I mentioned before, I can give another 100 pages long of energy idea with proper explanation. I am a man of my word, I am confident with myself. I am not a lacking confident man who still have to refer to something in order to make his own word sound convincing?? An esteem child with a common sense and reasonable words can do much better than this.
Thank You But many 5-8 Years old kids living around my area talking more sense than you.

I only can suggest that you should try whatever thing on your own with your own ears own eyes own experience. Do not assume, or predict them as you are already know it. Because as soon as you do so, you are having attitude of refusing to learn, to absorb new knowledge, new idea. Of Course, this is just my opinion.
We human really have little knowledge about universe, there is not just only one right path. But, to every of us able to develop a new knowledge, a better idea for Tomorrow. As soon as something new is discovered the old theory would be only a history.
And I am not saying that what you said it not right. It might be true and correct and I am trying to take your words into my consideration. However, if you only provide information that you know about what you say, and you are right, I am wrong, without at least 2-3 sentence of explanation of proving my idea isn't correct. At least bring some fact and logical idea into your paragraph. Otherwise, how can I look for information to account into my consideration.
We are parts of the Universe, well it might be more correct to say everything that exists within this Universe are parts of it. We cannot separate them. We all are under law of physic which one day everything might turn around if something new could be discovered. Also, Imagination is much more important than the knowledge, If I remember correctly this phase come from Albert E. But of course I studied intensively about what I have written but, it might be because I have not give full explanation with more detail just yet
Thank You and If I bother you guys, I might better find other places for my enjoyment of discussion.
Best of Luck to everyone!!
SN

Sure.

30 years in instrumentation and test measurement. Vibration, stress, noise, acoustics, pretty much any physical parameters. Primarily for military and civil aero engine applications, but has spanned many areas including occupational noise and even protecting marine mammals from man made underwater noise. Also performed HF audio work again for environmental protection work for rare species of bats. I am currently working expanding my knowledge in the area of RF applications. I only state this because this experience and knowledge I have gained over 30 years is specifically relevant to issues of audio system noise, ground issues and circuit topology. All of the challenging technical problems I encountered during this period were solved with engineering knowledge and none involved the use of boxes full of magic crystals.

Measurement doesn't make you blind. It is quite the opposite. It informs you about what is really going on, so that you don't have to rely on your imagination. It informs you so you can design and not guess.

I'm afraid Shinfox you have this the wrong way round. You are here claiming the Entrec box works. You have provided no evidence of this, technical or by controlled listening tests. You have provided no explanation as to how it works and certainly no explanation consistent with known electrical theory. You have vaguely stated something about "energy". You seem to think that electrical "badness" goes into this box and disappears. Speedskater on the previous page post 355 has already mentioned some names you may wish to look up and study their work with regard to electrical theory

I think the ball is in your court to provide some kind of credible explanation and fact that can be examined. You are not going to succeed trying to deflect the questions back on to me. You could start by asking yourself "what is wrong with my system that it requires this box"?

You are not bothering us, but you have to understand in this forum evidence and scientific explanation is King.

 

[March Audio]

Dear BE718,

I only can suggest that you should try whatever thing on your own with your own ears own eyes own experience. Do not assume, or predict them as you are already know it. Because as soon as you do so, you are having attitude of refusing to learn, to absorb new knowledge, new idea. Of Course, this is just my opinion.

We human really have little knowledge about universe, there is not just only one right path. But, to every of us able to develop a new knowledge, a better idea for Tomorrow. As soon as something new is discovered the old theory would be only a history.


SN

I want to tackle this comment specifically. The whole reason I use measurement is because I categorically DO NOT assume "I already know it". Measurement is the tool to establish the reality. To confirm or disprove theory.

Again you imply there is something to this box that humans just don't understand. Why are you convinced of this? Why do you think any affect it (allegedly) has is beyond explanation with current electrical knowledge?

 

[amirm]

I think we may all be confused. Perhaps the grounding box works on the same principle as the ghost trap in movie ghostbusters:

So all the bad stuff can be pushed into a box!!!

 

[RayDunzl]

 

[Blumlein 88]

Stupid me. This is for audiophiles, right? So, as long as we keep it away from that evil, spoil sport Amir and his measurements, the wireless does not actually have to work. We just need to make audiophiles think it does, and nobody will know. They will hear things they never heard before with the system in place. Plant a few raving testimonials on WBF and we are golden.

So, we just need to fabricate little plastic antennas on top of little boxes with our wires attached. Connect those to each of the audio components plus our main box, and ka-ching, I can hear the money rolling in. We just need to cram something that looks like electronics inside our little boxes. Maybe a battery and an LED, too. We can sell people marked up replacement batteries.

Tube traps for wifi. Eventually wifi will be seen as a much more maligned problem than USB because it is much more malleable with various imagination based issues.

 

[The Smokester]

I have developed a new upgrade for this type of grounding device. The main problem here is RF noise which beats against the fluctuations of the many uncontrolled junctions present in all audio systems. The solution to this problem is to supply a highly conducting quantum resonance plate to the bottom of the Entreq which acts as a proper counterpoise thus draining this deliterious energy.

Just using a flat plate of copper (sold separately), you will notice a sudden jump in the performance of your system with blacker blacks, truly sublime mids and rainbow-misted highs.

Given this entrée into what is possible with your system, you will then want to purchase my proprietary counterpoise about which I can say little in detail, but which is even better than copper. Consisting of carefully deposited laminates of silver and graphene (and other mysterious materials) of thickness such that a distributed josephen junction is formed, this new tweak will also have the added benefit of repelling cats which, as discussed earlier in this thread, are currently a potential problem with the unmodified Entreq.

It is my intention to distribute this revolutionary audio tweak in limited quantities (since they really hard to make, particularly with so many mysterious and rare materials) through Amir's business since he is the only one I trust in these matters. Price will be determined by supply and demand. Please direct all questions about this inspirational new quantum product to Amir as I am going back to the mountain for more divine inspiration. We will try to control cost but be prepared for a royal shit kicking. I'm sure you will agree it to be worth it.

 

[FrantzM]

Seeing how blatant the BS has become and how much it also has become the orthodoxy, I don't know if we need to laugh or cry: This is a very scary state of affair when people reject science and the scientific method so violently and allow people to lie in their faces and spew utter BS, while buying happily. Then again, we're living in a world where some people are famous ... just for being famous (doing absolutely nothing, I call this the Kim Kardashian syndrome) ... In that sense audio BS is benign but it points IMHO to a deeper problem with many societies.

 

[Sal1950]

Seeing how blatant the BS has become and how much it also has become the orthodoxy, I don't know if we need to laugh or cry: This is a very scary state of affair when people reject science and the scientific method so violently and allow people to lie in their faces and spew utter BS, while buying happily. Then again, we're living in a world where some people are famous ... just for being famous (doing absolutely nothing, I call this the Kim Kardashian syndrome) ... In that sense audio BS is benign but it points IMHO to a deeper problem with many societies.

My signature at Computer Audiophool which drives many to distraction. LOL

"The gullibility of audiophiles is what astonishes me the most, even after all these years. How is it possible, how did it ever happen, that they trust fairy-tale purveyors and mystic gurus more than reliable sources of scientific information?"
Peter Aczel - The Audio Critic

 

[amirm]

That sure is a smart quote Sal. It is one mystery that I can't answer. Perhaps it is the emotion of bragging about expensive gear one has accumulated which trumps common sense of listening to audio engineering/science experts.

 

[fas42]

My signature at Computer Audiophool which drives many to distraction. LOL

"The gullibility of audiophiles is what astonishes me the most, even after all these years. How is it possible, how did it ever happen, that they trust fairy-tale purveyors and mystic gurus more than reliable sources of scientific information?"
Peter Aczel - The Audio Critic

Because the "reliable sources of scientific information" don't have all the answers, yet ... it's trivial to find systems that outperform setups that have been assembled the "technically correct" way - and so people will chase what the those people who have dared to go off the "right path" are experiencing - will copy what the others have done in the hope that they can get closer to that experience.

If you're told to live by an austere diet, a scrumptious cake will always draw you in ...

 

[amirm]

If you're told to live by an austere diet, a scrumptious cake will always draw you in ...

It would like this one:

Looks tasty, no? One problem: this cake is not real! It is fake and for decoration only.

We eat with our eyes. And we hear the same all the time.

 

[Speedskater]

Because the "reliable sources of scientific information" don't have all the answers, yet ........

The scientists all moved on past analog audio decades ago. And most of the engineering knowledge has been around for a long time also.
Just what are the scientific audio questions that you need answers to?

 

[March Audio]

Because the "reliable sources of scientific information" don't have all the answers, yet ... it's trivial to find systems that outperform setups that have been assembled the "technically correct" way - and so people will chase what the those people who have dared to go off the "right path" are experiencing - will copy what the others have done in the hope that they can get closer to that experience.

If you're told to live by an austere diet, a scrumptious cake will always draw you in ...

Really?

What's your definition of technically correct?

All the technically correct systems I have heard sounded fantastic.

It's the ones that have strayed off into audiophoolery that have sounded ordinary, or more usually, coloured.