Entreq "signal grounding" Measurements

[Shinfox1980]

Wow, I am thankful for replies.
Dear Sal1950 Have you really heard sound performance from Pc Triple C conductor? Seriously. You might have miss one of the best audio product (For now). I am dead serious.
I just shared my experience and my understanding of how a HiFi system work, which it might be totally wrong. However, it is at least an opinion.
I don't really know what kind of things they put in Entreq Box and Also, Shunyata Research. However, when they working together, they are euphoria of music experience to me.

Of course, Every Audiophile or Music lover ought to know that keeping all of your components, power distributor, and your speaker still in place (no vibration) are important to a clearer and more fidelity sonic performance.
The Gryphon Attila are amazing to me in term of a large 3 dimensional sound stage. The Entreq box help it giving more smoother sonic outcome.
While Balance audio technology the sound is already so clear and musical already. With Shunyata + Entreq the outcome is just "Transparency"

I am a simple guy, if I conduct a habit such as buying an audio component and that habit give me some kind of reward to me such as enjoyment of music. It is just increase the likelihood of repeating the same kind of habit.
Which mean I kept on buying because it reward me some way. A very simple logical habit for humans and animals. Of course some time some component or speaker I bought did not reward me as much. It turn out that I sold them for used item.
But those things which I mentioned, at the moment I have never thought of selling them as used items. They are all good and can give me pleasure.
About measuring things, my ears are mine. Your ears are yours. Everybody can have different taste. I quite sure on my opinion that using a number to indicate thing that suppose to give us pleasure (Feeling) is a very non-sense thing to do.
(Enjoying things in life, does it has to have an enjoyment measuring equipment?!! And how does it work?, can they really tell how much happiness each person have living their live? A rich man might suffering from family issue and never be happy at all ,while a not rich man with a nice and a kind heart wife with 2 lovely kids and money enough to spend but not luxury things, seriously I might prefer to be a not rich guy)
This apply to situation as well, While I am sick listening to music could be a chaotic headache. On the other hand, listening music during late Sunday morning after a long comfortable 8-9 hours of sleeps (and a cup of tea or coffee while listening) could be an unforgettable great experience.

I really appreciate your guys replies, at least we communicate to each others. It is not important what your replies are. The important is what your replies really come from your heart and your true opinions. All my components might not be the best or totally out of good deed for any possible measuring equipment. However, they are indeed have been pleasuring me for quite some time now.
Apart from PS4 and Cinema, I also watch Japanese animation as well. In near future I might add a turntable, which cost about 700-900USD into my system. I hope to learn new things from it. But at the moment I am digital dude.

If you use your components by listening about 20 hours per week. With 52 weeks it would be a total of 1040 hours a year, and these components I would say that it last at least for 5 years without calculating their possible savage price.
So the total for 5 Years listening of 20 hours per week would be 5200 hours if my system were to cost about 30,000 USD in total. Each hours for listening to my hifi system would cost about 5.7 dollar US per hours. (And another 1-2 dollars for power supply cost etc) So, 7 US dollars per hour of enjoying your favorite music with hi-fidelity, the natural flow of musicality, transparency, a proper sound stage. I couldn't be happier and fell more best buy value.
If I taking my girlfriend out for a date, as soon as I step out side of my location. Everything seem to come with payment and cost, transportation, shopping, dinning, theater, etc. Which I assume to be at least 50 dollars a day for each person and of course That is 2 persons me and my girlfriend would be 100 dollars a day in total. In my opinion having an own HiFi system at your house or your location would likely save long term cost for you and your love ones. We tend to stay home more often we can watch good cinema at home and listen to music (at low volume while she is on her tablet) or I can enjoy series with Hifi sound at home, or Playing on my PS4 system.
It is my opinion or my attitude toward HiFi system. I hope this could at least contribute an opinion on HiFi system more 0r less to this forum.

Looking forward for all your replies
And Thanks again for those who replied my post.
Best of luck, health and wealth to everyone!!
SN

 

[amirm]

About measuring things, my ears are mine. Your ears are yours. Everybody can have different taste.

Hello Shinfox. Welcome to the forum.

Let me say that none of us doubt that you are perceiving the positive effects that you mention. The purpose of this forum is to investigate to see if there is formal analysis (measurements, listening test, theory, etc.) that backs it or not.

In my case, I have the Entreq in this thread and connected it to my audio system. It made no audible difference whatsoever. The theory says that it should have no effects. And measurements follow the same. So it is not a matter preference. The device simply does nothing. It is our brain which creates an illusion of what we think it should do.

In short, these are called "grounding devices" but do no grounding at all. They are just a wire inside some material. That is not ground.

Also, the ground in your electrical feed does nothing until it comes to play to save your life from an electrical short to the chassis of the equipment. Indeed, according to US National Electric Code (NEC), the ground wire must NOT carry current. The current loop is between the hot and neutral sockets in your outlets. If something doesn't carry current, then it is not part of an electrical circuit.

The ground wire is just a parallel connection to the neutral wire. As such, it cannot play any other role than a redundant path for safety.

The purpose of the stake in dirt at your service entrance is again for safety. It shunts (shorts) electrical surges such as lightning to ground. As grounds go, it is actually pretty poor one relative to what your electronic equipment wants. And the Entreq is millions of times worse than that.

As proof of this, all the sensitive instruments in an airplane or space vehicle runs with no ground connection whatsoever! Think of that satellite in space receiving super weak signals. And that hubble telescope capturing faint amounts of light. All of that sensitive gear runs with no safety ground whatsoever. Yet superb performance is possible because nothing in your audio electronics needs a "ground" to operate.

Another example is your car. It can play great music with no noise without any ground.

The notion of "ground" makes intuitive sense to audiophiles but sadly, none of that is correct. There is a guy on TV that teaches dog obedience. One of the big lessons he has is to not think of your dog as a human. That the dog is an animal, not a human. It doesn't have any of the emotions and logical thinking we have. Yet we all try to think of dog expressions and behavior through our lens as humans. We should not. Same is here with audio and grounding.

Stay with us and we can explain these things and hopefully get us to meet in the middle.

 

[RayDunzl]

As proof of this, all the sensitive instruments in an airplane or space vehicle runs with no ground connection whatsoever!

Well... I'd say (in more than one place above) something like:

"As proof of this, all the sensitive instruments in an airplane or space vehicle runs with no ground Earth connection whatsoever!"

At this juncture I'm not sure which would be more confusing, though.

 

[Sal1950]

Dear Sal1950 Have you really heard sound performance from Pc Triple C conductor? Seriously. You might have miss one of the best audio product (For now). I am dead serious.

I'm sure that little 15 amp @ 125 volt power strip is a great little unit. Lowes Home Improvement carries a number of them at very reasonable prices. The grounds are built into the cords.
https://www.lowes.com/pl/Power-stri...-Electrical/4294542237?searchTerm=power+strip
Problem is, if your actually hearing a change in the sound of your Hi Fi from using it, it is badly broken and should be removed immediately..
Amir has detailed the reasoning.

 

[Sal1950]

Well... I'd say (in more than one place above) something like:

"As proof of this, all the sensitive instruments in an airplane or space vehicle runs with no ground Earth connection whatsoever!"

At this juncture I'm not sure which would be more confusing, though.

Ground control to Major Ray.

 

[RayDunzl]

Ground control to Major Ray.

You're from Chicago...

Did you have one of these?

 

[Sal1950]

You're from Chicago...

Did you have one of these?

No, but I remember some challenged drivers using these.

 

[Don Hills]

You're from Chicago...

Did you have one of these? ...

The amusing part is that they are redundant. The tyres do a pretty good job of conducting static charges.
The zap that you can get when exiting a car comes from the static electricity generated as you slide across the seat. I've had a couple of cars with that problem, and the answer was to keep my hand on top of the door as I stepped out.

 

[Speedskater]

The amusing part is that they are redundant. The tyres do a pretty good job of conducting static charges........

In olden times that was true. The tires resistance to the road was in the high mega-ohm range, but it was low enough to discharge the static charge (that built-up when driving) to the Earth. Then about two decades ago they switched from carbon black to a plastic material in the tire construction. Suddenly toll booth attendants were getting shocked. So back to the drawing board.

 

[March Audio]

Wow, I am thankful for replies.
Dear Sal1950 Have you really heard sound performance from Pc Triple C conductor? Seriously. You might have miss one of the best audio product (For now). I am dead serious.
I just shared my experience and my understanding of how a HiFi system work, which it might be totally wrong. However, it is at least an opinion.
I don't really know what kind of things they put in Entreq Box and Also, Shunyata Research. However, when they working together, they are euphoria of music experience to me.

Of course, Every Audiophile or Music lover ought to know that keeping all of your components, power distributor, and your speaker still in place (no vibration) are important to a clearer and more fidelity sonic performance.
The Gryphon Attila are amazing to me in term of a large 3 dimensional sound stage. The Entreq box help it giving more smoother sonic outcome.
While Balance audio technology the sound is already so clear and musical already. With Shunyata + Entreq the outcome is just "Transparency"

I am a simple guy, if I conduct a habit such as buying an audio component and that habit give me some kind of reward to me such as enjoyment of music. It is just increase the likelihood of repeating the same kind of habit.
Which mean I kept on buying because it reward me some way. A very simple logical habit for humans and animals. Of course some time some component or speaker I bought did not reward me as much. It turn out that I sold them for used item.
But those things which I mentioned, at the moment I have never thought of selling them as used items. They are all good and can give me pleasure.
About measuring things, my ears are mine. Your ears are yours. Everybody can have different taste. I quite sure on my opinion that using a number to indicate thing that suppose to give us pleasure (Feeling) is a very non-sense thing to do.
(Enjoying things in life, does it has to have an enjoyment measuring equipment?!! And how does it work?, can they really tell how much happiness each person have living their live? A rich man might suffering from family issue and never be happy at all ,while a not rich man with a nice and a kind heart wife with 2 lovely kids and money enough to spend but not luxury things, seriously I might prefer to be a not rich guy)
This apply to situation as well, While I am sick listening to music could be a chaotic headache. On the other hand, listening music during late Sunday morning after a long comfortable 8-9 hours of sleeps (and a cup of tea or coffee while listening) could be an unforgettable great experience.

I really appreciate your guys replies, at least we communicate to each others. It is not important what your replies are. The important is what your replies really come from your heart and your true opinions. All my components might not be the best or totally out of good deed for any possible measuring equipment. However, they are indeed have been pleasuring me for quite some time now.
Apart from PS4 and Cinema, I also watch Japanese animation as well. In near future I might add a turntable, which cost about 700-900USD into my system. I hope to learn new things from it. But at the moment I am digital dude.

If you use your components by listening about 20 hours per week. With 52 weeks it would be a total of 1040 hours a year, and these components I would say that it last at least for 5 years without calculating their possible savage price.
So the total for 5 Years listening of 20 hours per week would be 5200 hours if my system were to cost about 30,000 USD in total. Each hours for listening to my hifi system would cost about 5.7 dollar US per hours. (And another 1-2 dollars for power supply cost etc) So, 7 US dollars per hour of enjoying your favorite music with hi-fidelity, the natural flow of musicality, transparency, a proper sound stage. I couldn't be happier and fell more best buy value.
If I taking my girlfriend out for a date, as soon as I step out side of my location. Everything seem to come with payment and cost, transportation, shopping, dinning, theater, etc. Which I assume to be at least 50 dollars a day for each person and of course That is 2 persons me and my girlfriend would be 100 dollars a day in total. In my opinion having an own HiFi system at your house or your location would likely save long term cost for you and your love ones. We tend to stay home more often we can watch good cinema at home and listen to music (at low volume while she is on her tablet) or I can enjoy series with Hifi sound at home, or Playing on my PS4 system.
It is my opinion or my attitude toward HiFi system. I hope this could at least contribute an opinion on HiFi system more 0r less to this forum.

Looking forward for all your replies
And Thanks again for those who replied my post.
Best of luck, health and wealth to everyone!!
SN

Hi Shinfox and welcome.

The problem I see here is that you don't appear to understand the reasons for the E boxes alleged efficacy. I see vague references to "energy" etc, but no explanation in any terms that relate to scientific knowledge. Therefore it's modus operandi is "magic". We are in the same territory as magic crystals , but it's ok so long as you have convinced yourself it's doing good.

Audio reproduction isn't magic. It is engineering, pure and simple. You may have discovered something that has, in some circumstances, an effect on an audio circuit, but it's clear you have no understanding of the reasons or cause and effect. That's not engineering, that's "plug and pray". There is no evidence that any alleged change to equipment performance is an improvement. If you hear a change you like it doesn't follow it's an improvement. After all people like the sound of turntables which on any and all technical levels are total Shite.

When you understand the circuit operation you will understand the deficiencies in the equipment you are connecting the box too, or their connection topology deficiencies. In other words if it really is doing good there is something wrong elsewhere that you need to solve.

These ground boxes ain't doing any grounding......not that they need to. Ground is not a sink for all things evil in an audio circuit. That's an audiophool myth. Nor is a box of magic crystals. My cat may think otherwise. My system has no ground connection and believe me it has spectacularly low noise levels and sounds fabulous.

BTW changes in circuit performance are eminently measurable. Don't kid yourself things are beyond measurement or that there is a world of circuit performance that is beyond understanding. That's just a line of defence the technically ignorant are forced to resort to.

 

[The Smokester]

...Nor is a box of magic crystals. My cat may think otherwise...

Hhahahah!

Quote of the week.

 

[Blumlein 88]

Well... I'd say (in more than one place above) something like:

"As proof of this, all the sensitive instruments in an airplane or space vehicle runs with no ground Earth connection whatsoever!"

At this juncture I'm not sure which would be more confusing, though.

And that is before describing cars that use positive ground.

 

[RayDunzl]

And that is before describing cars that use positive ground.

Your now nearly defunct wireline Telephone Central Office is powered off a -48V supply (ground/Earth/0V is relatively positive).

I think the choice originally had to do with which way stray ions flowed and how corrosion progressed on the outdoor copper cables - one direction preferable to the other for longer equipment life.

 

[Shinfox1980]

Dear All
I have an email, this morning so I replied.
I did not know it was automatic mail for someone replied my post
Here is what I replied to Amirm

Dear Amirm
Thank you for replying me and the attempt to give explanation. I presume that I understand your theory. However, what you have measure which if it is correct as it is that Entreq add noise to your measuring device. Then that noise floor should be audible what so ever in your Hi-fi system. Unless You never try on your Hi-fi system but only testing the box with device. Because, if Entreq doesn't ground and only are some wiring cable and box that connect to your hi-fi system, then it should at least audible either beneficial to your listening or not. This obviously contradicting within your own content. Unless what you are measuring outcome to be indifferent either hooking Entreq box or not result are the same(nothing happen). Only this way your content would not be contradicting within itself.
But please don't get me wrong I just pointing out thing that doesn't seem right. Also theory is just theory.
The result point out that there is something changed (adding some kind of noise) However, when connect to an audio system there is no different. Well I think you should at least point out that you can audit some level increase of noise floor as the same as you measured device tells you. Otherwise, it is pretty much contradicting.

Thank You
SN
And I never find any car audio any fidelity.

Dear BE718
As I have mentioned before that the previous post was only one of many things I can share about grounding objects. The point is I understand how it works not in term of magic.(About "magic" non of us mentioning it, Only you who have mentioned and I would be appreciated if you can define the word "magic" for this particular forum or at least in general or how you intend to use it)

It might not be "magic" word of yours. I see it in term of Energy flowing within our Universe.

How this Entreq Box work?, I only can presume from my knowledge because I am sure there are more secret into this Entreq Ground Box.
1st Stage) Electric Energy (Stray Current or Switching Current within your audio components), Going through the Entreq grounding cable, then as they hit the Box, the Electric energy start to run around within the Box, this stage the Electric energy changing into Kinetic Energy (Moving Energy),
2nd Stage) Once the Kinetic Energy keep moving faster and faster within the Box, the Kinetic Energy will transform into Thermo Energy (little heat) and finally the excessive energy are used up.
That is how "Entreq - Energy Transforming Equipment" does thing as it said right in the front of itself.
(And this short grounding path is draining away stray currents much faster than regular standard home grounding, it is fast enough to drain away all stray current before it effect the performance of your audio equipments.)

By Draining out stray current within your audio components, which attract all kind of EMI and RFI into itself (the stray current is the home of these noise) once this happen the EMI and RFI will cover the clear flowing of all signal path within your audio component. Therefore, if you hooking up an Entreq ground box as it's instruction correctly, You might hear some amazing sonic performance from you HiFi system.
Frankly, I am not a man at material level, but at Energy Perspective Level.

Have you ever considered Why a Pre-Amp + Power Amp?? Why people in the old time design this sort of things?
It is because Power Amplifier is only to amplifying the signal. The correct designed Power Amplifier must only have one switch. Which is ON/OFF switch. For the input selector must not be relay and must be manual. Otherwise, this will trigger the switching current within your audio component. Your audio circuit board will pretty soon be full of stray current which draw unwanted signal/Noise from around the area.
So, Grounding your audio components should be a good idea. And yes I agree with Amirm the shorter the ground cable (path) is the lower the noise floor. As mention before, the clean current of both inflow/outflow directly effect the outcome of sonic performance of your Hi-Fi system.

A lot of people are being fascinated by HiFi system because, whatever change you make to it, the sound will alter, having wood as an audio board, or pure quartz will give so much different in sonic outcome.(I believe, somehow it might be similar to a theory "Strings Theory" where everything in this Universe is vibration).
I think a Hi-Fi system simply is a system that transform electric energy into sonic energy, isn't it? (If you are looking at a bigger picture)

The best a Hi-Fi system at any given price level can do is to carry the source's signal and delivering them as it is (as losing it as few as possible).

Best of all, trying things for yourself and you will see.

I want to share something I think more or less beneficial to anyone, and also I want to learn things from any one as well.
Thank You everyone who replied
Great Health, Great Wealth to We all!!
SN

 

[Speedskater]

Oh dear, oh dear, Georg Ohm and Gustav Kirchhoff were totally wrong about just how electricity works. Now we often see in many branches of electricity a common misunderstanding about Mother Earth. Current has no interest in going into ME. ME does not act as a sink or sump for bad electricity.

But skipping over that, a grounding box is the opposite of ME.
a] ME is huge a grounding box is tiny, tiny.
b] ME is very conductive. While it's difficult & expensive to make a good connection to ME, the resistance between two such connections is very low.
The resistance in a grounding box is so high, you can't measure it with an Ohm meter. Well heck, some of the grounding boxes only have one terminal.

Current will not flow into or out of a one terminal component.

Most bad electricity, that is noise, interference and leakage currents will take the lowest impedance paths back to their voltage source. Just what is their voltage source you might ask? Why it's the power company's Neutral connection.

 

[Fitzcaraldo215]

I see that our dear friends at Nordost now have a super-duper line of new grounding boxes and their super-duper special wires to go into them. But, I have not found out what type of special kitty litter they use.

http://www.nordost.com/qrt/qkore-ground-unit.php

 

[amirm]

It is a new category of devices much like premium cables. Everyone will jump into as it is even easier to make than fancy cables. And impresses audiophiles just like any other tweak.

 

[Jinjuku]

I'm going one better: Optical Fiber and Wireless grounding boxes.

 

[Fitzcaraldo215]

Bingo, technically! I'd avoid the wireless, unless you can come up with some special, grounding WiFi routers to sell. Shouldn't be hard. But, fiberoptic grounding wires, brilliant!

 

[amirm]

... and Wireless grounding boxes.

Brilliant!