Maybe this forum should be renamed "Audio science and dogs review".
Regards, a fellow dog-lover!
Regards, a fellow dog-lover!
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A Visit to Stereophile Reviewer, Jason Victor Serinus
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OP
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Seeing how there were three parts to his name, that is a major accomplishment for me!!!Seems the only thing amir got right was Jason's name
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Well you are much better at picking dog names than I am. Welcome to this forum.
edd9000
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Great report.
I regularly attend gatherings at fellow audiophiles. Things are swapped in and out all day and much discussion is had. I regularly hear difference between equipment along with everyone else. Of course I just put it down to things like mismatched level etc. I'm usually more impressed with how preference closely correlates with retail value.
I regularly attend gatherings at fellow audiophiles. Things are swapped in and out all day and much discussion is had. I regularly hear difference between equipment along with everyone else. Of course I just put it down to things like mismatched level etc. I'm usually more impressed with how preference closely correlates with retail value.
More expensive must always be necessary for improvements. It is possible for something more expensive not to be an improvement, if the brand is unknown or unfashionable, but cheaper can't possibly be an upgrade. Ever.
"Better" components are always much dearer. I have always thought that there must be a capacitor construction or valve (tube) type which is inherently good without being pricy, but no - the good sounding ones are always implausibly expensive or hard to find NOS parts.
"Better" components are always much dearer. I have always thought that there must be a capacitor construction or valve (tube) type which is inherently good without being pricy, but no - the good sounding ones are always implausibly expensive or hard to find NOS parts.
The secret is buy all the widely available ones, hord them so they become rare and sort after... then they will sound better
SPFC
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Amir, great report.
I did meet Jason briefly at Axpona last year. I unknowingly sat next to him at one of the rooms (all I remember is that it had Sonus Faber speakers). When I realized it was him, I whispered that I enjoyed reading his show reports. He looked at me, thanked me and showed his little notebook with the notes he was taking and we laughed about how hard it was to read his notes. I don't know how he can take such detailed notes, but one thing I did after returning from Axpona was to read his notes and compare to my memory of the same rooms. If anything, it helps me understand a little better the terms he uses to describe what he hears.
As for liking the sound better the second time you hear a song, I agree 100%. Especially with unfamiliar music, the second time you brain has already learned some of the music and doesn't have to process as much information. It is then free to pick out additional details. IMO.
I did meet Jason briefly at Axpona last year. I unknowingly sat next to him at one of the rooms (all I remember is that it had Sonus Faber speakers). When I realized it was him, I whispered that I enjoyed reading his show reports. He looked at me, thanked me and showed his little notebook with the notes he was taking and we laughed about how hard it was to read his notes. I don't know how he can take such detailed notes, but one thing I did after returning from Axpona was to read his notes and compare to my memory of the same rooms. If anything, it helps me understand a little better the terms he uses to describe what he hears.
As for liking the sound better the second time you hear a song, I agree 100%. Especially with unfamiliar music, the second time you brain has already learned some of the music and doesn't have to process as much information. It is then free to pick out additional details. IMO.
Funny how that works out.
Now your on to something Thomas! Once things become hard to obtain their percieved SQ will go up along with demanding a higher price. Audiophool's meat and potatos.The secret is buy all the widely available ones, hord them so they become rare and sort after... then they will sound better
But what happens when improvements in SQ become so vanishingly small as to be irrelevant?
That is the point this industry is at with much of today's electronics between the source and speaker.
Then what has happened is price became the final arbitrator on what's "better", having no solid relationship to it's real SQ. Marketing spin is king and the fools are swarming to things like $6k power cords and alike.
It's become a industry where the lunatics are running the asylum.
Quite, I was joking. Only if the change is really, really expensive then veils are lifted, night and day difference etc. If it isn't expensive enough only disappointment.
OP
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Let's not rant too much guys. In this instance price was not revealed and with two different outcomes, it didn't play a role anyway.
Party pooper.
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Taking an interest one has up one notch to the level of an enthusiast; and then, up another notch to the level of an obsessive/compulsive; and then...well, I'd say it it becomes a pathology or sickness. I wonder if along the way there was a transformation of the object of interest from sound/perception/music to something else, i.e., greed, aggression, pursuit of the very special, exceptionalism; or whether all along the obsession/compulsion was for exceptionalism and the very special? It is my judgment that this interest is focused on one of the least truly meaningful things in the wide world of reality. This is a pursuit of the least important thing in these men's lives. It is very safe and it won't hurt you or pull you emotionally into anything that can truly cause a need for change and transformation. You see these (kinds) of guys on Carmel Valley Rd. in their exotic cars. In a way this is porn. A reasonable and practical response to very similar products, and to products that out-perform your abilities to distinguish, is indifference. Like between brands of ketchup, or bug sprays or good bicycles. What kind of person goes and buys a $15,000 bicycle? In Bend, OR, there are a lot of older men, or older couples with $70,000 worth of bicycles in their garage. Meet and talk to them--by the end of the night you'll hear about those bicycles and how much they paid for them. I'm not saying this is what drives the members of this group. But it is odd to convene a group or panel to listen, assess, compare and contrast some pricey audio equipment as if it mattered, or as if one were better than the other. Pricey equipment damn well better perform across the significant parameters. Beyond that the differences come down to preference--like whether the dress looks better with the light yellow shoes, or the medium yellow shoes. Tell an alcoholic he can never have another drink in his life in order to survive and thrive and he reacts as if it is beyond crisis. Tell a man that he cannot eat shell fish the rest of his life if he is to live and survive and thrive and he doesn't go ape shit. What happens when you tell an audio addict he has an obsession/compulsion? I wonder.
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dshreter
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I’ve seen it mentioned around here that Wilson speakers do not measure very well. Are spinoramas on any of their famous designs available?
On the couple occasions I’ve had a listen, I was impressed with what I heard, it certainly caught my attention with a sense of scale and good stereo-focus. To be fair that is significantly attributable to room and setup as well. I’ve never listened long enough to say if they would be the speakers I most want to live with, but no doubt they make an impact.
Perhaps one will eventually make it to Amir for measurement. If anyone has pointers to spinoramas, thank you. I’m also interested in what other speakers have comparable measured performance to Wilsons.
On the couple occasions I’ve had a listen, I was impressed with what I heard, it certainly caught my attention with a sense of scale and good stereo-focus. To be fair that is significantly attributable to room and setup as well. I’ve never listened long enough to say if they would be the speakers I most want to live with, but no doubt they make an impact.
Perhaps one will eventually make it to Amir for measurement. If anyone has pointers to spinoramas, thank you. I’m also interested in what other speakers have comparable measured performance to Wilsons.
Don’t forget that those speakers are always fed with effect boxes that produce tons of distortion. If those Wilson speakers are fed with transparent source we can definitely see how much snake oil those speakers really have
dshreter
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Effect boxes? I’m not familiar - is that part of the overall Wilson design or something different?
Effect box aka “active or tube preamps and SET power amps or terrible measuring power amp, DACs that have terrible measurements and such. What I meant by transparency is when those speakers are fed with Mola Mola Tambaqui DAC and Benchmark AHB2 monoblock amps known for their transparency. However, DSP and room treatment are needed to correct for room acoustics.
cjfrbw
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Probably all of the above, with an undue pride of possession and display. Over on the 'other' forum, the members give grand huzzahs and back slaps whenever anybody buys an absurdly priced equipment piece or tweak-0 talisman. On the other hand talk about an inexpensive but effective device or a nice DIY etc. that isn't costly or is out of the realm of the grandiose, it is like you just took a dump on the commercial force and internet faces go pale and lifeless, as if they don't want to be polluted.
Some of the exceptionalism goes to various fashions, as for the rare and exotic, determined by some odd star chamber of jostling competition and need to possess the ultimate collector's items.
Here's an ebay ad for VT52 NOS tubes. In any reasonable universe, you would have to say this is competitive collection mania divorced from true innate value:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/VT52-VACUU...662751?hash=item3b108bb8df:g:JIYAAOSwzGhapU1~
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It would really surprise me (no, it really wouldn't given the whole tweako Wilson scene) if someone was using an SET with one of their speakers. Even the smallest is 4 ohms and they want 20-30 watts minimum in the spec sheet. I mean, you'd really have to be hard core to do that.
No doubt you are correct about obsessive collecting and spending with no rational basis for preference. But I would not extend that to the people who travel to listen to systems. There are experience seekers in every sensory field, wine-tasting is an example I am familiar with. But test-driving expensive cars or visiting art museums is in the same category as going to Axpona and listening to systems critically, IMO. One might never be able to buy/possess any of the things tested but there’s value - even joy and exhilaration - in the experience.
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