Cognitive Bias

[dallasjustice]

This graphic is helpful to understand the types of biases to which our minds subject us when we listen to music or do anything else.

Which of these biases or categories of miscerception are most prevalent among audiophiles? Can we ever escape our own minds or can we merely be aware these things are distorting our thoughts all of the time?

 

[fas42]

"We notice when something has changed" ... if I listen to a recording of, say, a piano being played, it shouldn't make me aware, all the time, that I'm listening to a recording of one, and not the real thing. This is "Too Much Information", because we hear both what's on the the recording, and the additional distortion of all the elements of the playback situation - if the latter are eliminated, then one doesn't "notice something has changed" - it remains at all times, just what's on the recording.

 

[amirm]

Wow, that is an amazing chart!

 

[RayDunzl]

I don't know if this is right or wrong, but is an interesting read...

https://aeon.co/essays/your-brain-does-not-process-information-and-it-is-not-a-computer

 

[dallasjustice]

I like this paper. I skimmed it. I'll read it more carefully later. I think it has applicability to all of the artificial intelligence hysterical futurist predictions. I think this idea that the brain is just a computer is most common among the autistic elite in Silicon Valley. They believe AI will replace both humans AND humanity. The truth is we are only beginning to understand how the human mind works.

I don't know if this is right or wrong, but is an interesting read...

https://aeon.co/essays/your-brain-does-not-process-information-and-it-is-not-a-computer

 

[fas42]

I don't know if this is right or wrong, but is an interesting read...

https://aeon.co/essays/your-brain-does-not-process-information-and-it-is-not-a-computer

Which led me to this, https://www.humanbrainproject.eu/en/

 

[Cosmik]

And yet... the world is shaped by non-scientists who are prey to every bias in the chart. Almost everything that is designed is created 'sighted'. Every work of art, musical composition, book, newspaper article, piece of architecture, graphic design, political philosophy, business etc. etc. is created in full view and as a direct consequence of those biases. How come anything works at all? Could it be that "bias" is often another word for experience, or even wisdom?

 

[Cosmik]

I like this paper. I skimmed it. I'll read it more carefully later. I think it has applicability to all of the artificial intelligence hysterical futurist predictions. I think this idea that the brain is just a computer is most common among the autistic elite in Silicon Valley. They believe AI will replace both humans AND humanity. The truth is we are only beginning to understand how the human mind works.

I kind of agree with the paper - I am reasonably convinced that there are philosophical reasons that prevent a digital computer from becoming conscious. However, I don't quite agree with the author that the information processing analogy can be dismissed so easily.

The IP perspective requires the player to formulate an estimate of various initial conditions of the ball’s flight – the force of the impact, the angle of the trajectory, that kind of thing – then to create and analyse an internal model of the path along which the ball will likely move, then to use that model to guide and adjust motor movements continuously in time in order to intercept the ball.

That is all well and good if we functioned as computers do, but McBeath and his colleagues gave a simpler account: to catch the ball, the player simply needs to keep moving in a way that keeps the ball in a constant visual relationship with respect to home plate and the surrounding scenery (technically, in a ‘linear optical trajectory’). This might sound complicated, but it is actually incredibly simple, and completely free of computations, representations and algorithms.

I think he is missing that an artificial neural network can learn to do exactly as he describes, even though it is constructed using an 'IP'-based system (CPU, memory etc.). Similarly, in an artificial neural image recognition system, for example, memories are 'fuzzy' and distributed throughout the whole network rather than a precise 'recording' that is stored in a specific location - which he cites as an example of how brains and 'IP' systems differ.

A digital computer in combination with software can, indeed, behave in ways very similar to a brain.

 

[Erasmus]

Which of these biases or categories of miscerception are most prevalent among audiophiles? Can we ever escape our own minds or can we merely be aware these things are distorting our thoughts all of the time?

Real nice chart, but I'd give a nod to this one: Naïve Realism

(Also, real glad to find this place. Quite the refreshing discovery from following a link at What's Best, of all places.)

 

[Blumlein 88]

Real nice chart, but I'd give a nod to this one: Naïve Realism

View attachment 6570

(Also, real glad to find this place. Quite the refreshing discovery from following a link at What's Best, of all places.)

Welcome to ASR.

 

[Erasmus]

Welcome to ASR.

Thanks!

 

[Cosmik]

Real nice chart, but I'd give a nod to this one: Naïve Realism

View attachment 6570

The BBC once made a dramatised film about the discovery of DNA. Crick and Watson didn't do the donkey work of science as Rosalind Franklin did, but instead discovered the structure of DNA by thinking about it a lot and linking together others' theories and some empirical evidence. Without 'naive realism' they would not have been driven to do this. The film is quite a good advert for the power of cognitive bias!

 

[Purité Audio]

Naive realism describes me almost perfectly, 'overconfidence of third parties verdict' would that mean believing in a third party that I believe to hold th same views as myself?
Keith

 

[Thomas savage]

View attachment 6547 This graphic is helpful to understand the types of biases to which our minds subject us when we listen to music or do anything else.

Which of these biases or categories of miscerception are most prevalent among audiophiles? Can we ever escape our own minds or can we merely be aware these things are distorting our thoughts all of the time?

You can't escape yourself, however it's possible to make room for known corruptions and adjust accordingly.

Fooling oneself into thinking we can circumnavigate our sub conscious selfs only leads to deeper self deception and a worse state of 'corruption ' though precisely who is corrupting who is beyond me or maybe what is corrupting what within the self .

Realising all these things, reaching 'knowing' unfortunately means bugger all when all is said and done. Love and enjoy those around you, try and be decent the rest is bullshit.

 

[Thomas savage]

I like this paper. I skimmed it. I'll read it more carefully later. I think it has applicability to all of the artificial intelligence hysterical futurist predictions. I think this idea that the brain is just a computer is most common among the autistic elite in Silicon Valley. They believe AI will replace both humans AND humanity. The truth is we are only beginning to understand how the human mind works.

Or in my case doesn't work...

 

[Thomas savage]

Naive realism describes me almost perfectly, 'overconfidence of third parties verdict' would that mean believing in a third party that I believe to hold th same views as myself?
Keith

I'd ask whom informs who there.. it's hard for humans to hold contradictory states in their mind though mine is sustained by contradiction but I'm weird..

We attach ourselves to all sorts and use / project our beliefs to hide a underling ignorance and or irrelevance that's just too hard for most to admit to.

 

[Thomas savage]

Real nice chart, but I'd give a nod to this one: Naïve Realism

View attachment 6570

(Also, real glad to find this place. Quite the refreshing discovery from following a link at What's Best, of all places.)

A warm Welcome from me, great first post.

 

[amirm]

Real nice chart, but I'd give a nod to this one: Naïve Realism

View attachment 6570

(Also, real glad to find this place. Quite the refreshing discovery from following a link at What's Best, of all places.)

Wow, I did not realize there are so many good charts out there on these topics! Welcome aboard indeed. And when you say you live in Washington, you mean D.C. or our neck of the woods?

 

[Erasmus]

Naive realism describes me almost perfectly, 'overconfidence of third parties verdict' would that mean believing in a third party that I believe to hold th same views as myself?
Keith

I suspect the PhDs who threw together that chart may have been thinking of something along the lines of Confirmation Bias, but it's admittedly been over a decade since I read the article where I snagged that synopsis from.

A warm Welcome from me, great first post.

Thanks much!

Wow, I did not realize there are so many good charts out there on these topics! Welcome aboard indeed. And when you say you live in Washington, you mean D.C. or our neck of the woods?

Sociology and psychology have loads of informative stuff like this (for as much razzing as they get from the "hard" sciences ), as with the original post, that I've found very useful in understanding the audiophile mind and why audio forums tend to be what they are. Informative enough to teach me that there's no "fixing" the hobby, just that efforts are better spent finding knowledgeable people to learn from. Thanks for the warm welcome, I didn't mean to hijack the thread, just contribute to it. Why, the real Washington, of course. South of Seattle, west of Portland.

 

[amirm]

Why, the real Washington, of course. South of Seattle, west of Portland.

Ah yes! Another homeboy.