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Dutch & Dutch 8C

Purité Audio

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D&D's 8C arrive this week, the 8C are part of the new wave of loudspeaker designs which include the Kii THREE and Beolab 90,
All the latest from Dutch & Dutch can be found here,

https://www.facebook.com/dutchanddutch/

Keith
 

Sal1950

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D&D's 8C arrive this week, the 8C are part of the new wave of loudspeaker designs which include the Kii THREE and Beolab 90,
All the latest from Dutch & Dutch can be found here,

https://www.facebook.com/dutchanddutch/

Keith
Not sure why you want to lump the 8c with the Kii and Beo's?
The Kii and Beo's are sprayers using multiple drivers and DSP to attempt to correct for room interaction.
The 8C a constant directivity wave guide design. A fairly conventional active 3 way that includes some extensive DSP customization possibilities. A number of other companies doing this sort of thing including JBL.
I would look to the 8C to provide the best sound in your house if it was done correctly
But the only real common factor of the three is that your selling them. :D
 
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Purité Audio

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fas42

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Personal peeve ... if you set up a website for your product, make sure you hire someone who can do the job properly - trying to look up info about Dutch & Dutch stuff on their site, my browser keeps hitting roadblocks ... no good having lots of frilly decoration if the person at the other end gets pissed off, just trying to get basic stuff showing ...
 

Kal Rubinson

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The 8C a constant directivity wave guide design. A fairly conventional active 3 way that includes some extensive DSP customization possibilities. A number of other companies doing this sort of thing including JBL.
How far down does the constant directivity extend?
 

Sal1950

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How far down does the constant directivity extend?
Just quoting front the manufacturer site Kal,
https://dutchdutch.com/8c
"The 8c is more than just a studio monitor. It is a unique acoustic concept. Its revolutionary cabinet design provides the 8c with constant directivity from 100 Hz upwards. As a result, the 8c is above and beyond any other studio monitor in terms of neutrality, precision, and in-room tonal balance."
 

oivavoi

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Constant directivity down to 100 hz is very good. Beyond that, I think it is physically impossible.
 
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The Beolab 90's mange 60Hz I believe but they are a, much larger, b, much more expensive.
Keith
 

oivavoi

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Impressive, and I don't doubt it. But I struggle to understand how it's physically possible. I thought it was an acknowledged fact that bass is completely non-directional below 100 hz?
 
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That is the clever part and why the Beolabs and Kii's are a genuine advance.
Keith
 

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Impressive, and I don't doubt it. But I struggle to understand how it's physically possible. I thought it was an acknowledged fact that bass is completely non-directional below 100 hz?
It's a question of effectively sending out some anti-phase to cancel the pressure waves as they come round the sides and rear. Presumably the holes on the sides of these speakers are allowing out some of the rear (anti-phase) wave from the cone to interfere with (and cancel) the pressure waves making their way round from the front. With the Kii, this is done with DSP and extra drivers.

(I think that's how it works, anyway).
 
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Purité Audio

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I have asked Martijn ( 8C's designer) to translate the 'how it works' feature on the D&D website, it is there but in Dutch only.
Keith
 

oivavoi

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It's a question of effectively sending out some anti-phase to cancel the pressure waves as they come round the sides and rear. Presumably the holes on the sides of these speakers are allowing out some of the rear (anti-phase) wave from the cone to interfere with (and cancel) the pressure waves making their way round from the front. With the Kii, this is done with DSP and extra drivers.

(I think that's how it works, anyway).

Thanks. That makes sense.
 

oivavoi

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Bjorn

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Constant directivity at the lowest frequencies will not work well in a small room. Here the room modes will dominate and the directivity is largely lost. But outdoor or in a large venue it will work and cardioid subwoofers have been used for that purpose for many years. It's nothing new.

I'm confident if we saw several in room measurements of Kii and Beolab 90, we would see this.
 

oivavoi

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Constant directivity at the lowest frequencies will not work well in a small room. Here the room modes will dominate and the directivity is largely lost. But outdoor or in a large venue it will work and cardioid subwoofers have been used for that purpose for many years. It's nothing new.

I'm confident if we saw several in room measurements of Kii and Beolab 90, we would see this.

Thanks Bjørn, interesting! And welcome to the forum! Us Norwegians are taking over the world... well, at least the Audio Science Review ;)
 
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Constant directivity at the lowest frequencies will not work well in a small room. Here the room modes will dominate and the directivity is largely lost. But outdoor or in a large venue it will work and cardioid subwoofers have been used for that purpose for many years. It's nothing new.

I'm confident if we saw several in room measurements of Kii and Beolab 90, we would see this.
You would be wrong, the cardioid response of the Kii's make a considerable subjective difference and that is reflected with their in room measurements.
The Beolabs are even more impressive .
Keith
 

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You are welcome to prove it by showing many in room measurements.
Beware that I didn't say it was completely lost. There's some that works but it's lost to a great degree. There have been studies on this and I haven't seen anything new that shows anything else.

Something worth mentioning here though is that monopoles, cardioids and dipoles trigger the room slightly different and each has to be optmized for placement. Meaning that the optimal placement for each is different. So comparing them with same placement would not be a fair comparison. That may explain partially why some audiophile experience a better response with one design.
 

oivavoi

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Could it be that the main subjective improvement of the beolabs or the Kiis doesn't lie in the directionality of the very deep bass, but rather that they're directional down to the midbass? Say to 120-150-200 hz? To be directional that far down is nevertheless vastly better than almost all other commercial loudspeakers.
 
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