My theory:
technically/scientifically unsavvy babyboomers high on the upgrade ladder who need something to do inbetween ever more costly component upgrades, combined with dealers and magazines who slowly learned that they can get away with anything.
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Entreq "signal grounding" Measurements
- Thread starter amirm
- Start date
My theory:
technically/scientifically unsavvy babyboomers high on the upgrade ladder who need something to do inbetween ever more costly component upgrades, combined with dealers and magazines who slowly learned that they can get away with anything.
I suppose it is just another element of general dumbing down, many years ago, this type of nonsense wouldn't have dared rear its head, magazines and a far more informed users would have seen straight through it, now magazines/some manufacturers /dealers just chase the cash.
Unscrupulously selling to the gullible, almost a return to the medieval 'relics' !
Keith
Unscrupulously selling to the gullible, almost a return to the medieval 'relics' !
Keith
"Technically correct" systems are those that pass all the testing that would be used by many of the people who frequent this forum. I would just use the term "correct"; that for me would be a setup that produces 100% invisible speakers - which is an aspect of reproduction at a level where one's attention is not drawn to the mechanism creating the sound.
My interest is in determining everything that matters for achieving that quality - so, those are the "scientific audio questions that I need answers to" - to put it another way, what are the numbers that guarantee I get that, every time?
"Eat with our eyes"? ... well, it's a combination - the poo will hit the fan at some stage; trying to devour chocolate coloured plastic is not going to please the olfactory senses ...
Shinfox1980
Member
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Since, Amirm mentioned that I am not bother you guys.
So, I would like to reply that, believing in the scientific measurement might be a wise idea not to fool yourself. However, relying everything on scientific theory might not get you anywhere from the knowledge which a group of some people who created it and make it as an reference fact. Before, there is no internet, no Facebook, etc. Well, I mean we living in a dynamic World. Things are changing little by little every moment. There are a lot of unable explanation scientifically evidence found all over the world. Synchronizing, Karma etc What I am trying to say is that science is just a man made theory which is used to explain natural phenomenon within our environmental or our Universe. Sometime, you just ought to try things in different methods.
I am not with any master degree. In fact, I graduated from an Economic School (Bach Degree), Management School (Bach Degree), Interior Design (Diploma), Cooking School (Diploma), my activities during my high school is tennis, badminton, concert band, drama club etc. I cannot say I am indeed have in depth knowledge of a kind. However, instead of looking deeper into one particular area. It might have helped me looking into a broader picture and more possibility to my life.
Again listening experience is rather personal taste and preference. I like to choose thing that is "happy to me" not the thing that is "Scientifically Proven to others". Which I always see many magazines use graphical and scientifically proven measurement, numbers blah blah to explain things which after I read them and went to a shop and have a listen. Mostly, they are not quite working to me or somehow very little audible. (And that I don't get the columnist why needs about 3-4 of pages of scientifically evidence convincing me by graphical and evidence number while in real life it would sound about 0%-5% in sonic performance changing (Improvement or not is another story.) I used to read the absolute sound and it just gave me headache, blah blah etc. As an Economic graduated student, of course I know "marketing spin" and would dare to say that I understand the mechanism of Demand and Supply, Marketing, And event predict their possible margins as well.
Again, I don't just image, I listen, and I do study quite well, before I make purchase. I listen to a hi-fi system with A-B test with and without the accesory or A-B cables test before I buy things. Although I did that still there could be some mistake. This might have to do with different in time, place, my body condition, system setup, condition of currents, etc (including things that people still cannot find theory to explaining them).
When you love someone who is not your relative, you would know that you love her. Do you need a scientifically proven or explanation first? Before you can claim that it is right to love her? or Do you need any reason to love someone?
I think this is very obvious to many couple those who end up being happily together without understanding why (Different background, Different Perspective, etc) Some, might said that those are not love, he just consumed by her charming.
Well, when you do love someone, it is you and only you who know it(or perhaps her too due to you and her somehow connected to each other) May I ask that, is there a proper scientific way to prove that a person is loving a person?
I only want to suggest that you should try things on your own and don't quickly draw a conclusion. Give it several different way of testing. There might be some thing new for us to learn (always).
To The Smokester
I just think that a flat plate of high purity silver might just sound better due to a broader bandwidth. And you might not want to quickly come up with some theory to conclude why this thing sound better. It might sound better but, might not be from the theory you mentioned.
To BE718
Are you sure you have helped bat, Did you somehow communicate with them to confirm that their problem is gone. It might be you and your guy problem is gone. However, their changing in behavior doesn't mean you can conclude that you have helped removing a noise problem to them. In the opposite you might just add more problem to them and they just might cannot do anything apart from response in the way that make you less involved to their living. (Did a bat said to you "Thank you I felt much better you helped me about those noise" I assumed "No") and whatever Number your scientific device measurement outcome was, you cannot 100% guarantee that you have helped any animals. Because, what you can only do is to make your own conclusion out of your own knowledge and understanding of Engineer or Spicy (That human again conclude that they know something). This is because it is not included any proper opinion confirmation from the animal. (Unless you have some supernatural ability talking & communicating with the animal??) Human logic and Animal Logic might be completely difference. There is no way we can ensure that we know anything or everything, human might have only seen only 5% of a big picture of our Universe and assume that we can make some conclusions. Anyway, I think we do not do that. We just develop a theory to somehow explain natural phenomenon only.
Thank You for any comment
And Hope I am not saying things too much out of scope of this forum since BE718 mentioned that this forum scientific proven is a King
My will is to share some thing goods to others. I am not expecting anyone to believe me but hope you may try things and finding out for yourself.
Cheers! to All
SN
So, I would like to reply that, believing in the scientific measurement might be a wise idea not to fool yourself. However, relying everything on scientific theory might not get you anywhere from the knowledge which a group of some people who created it and make it as an reference fact. Before, there is no internet, no Facebook, etc. Well, I mean we living in a dynamic World. Things are changing little by little every moment. There are a lot of unable explanation scientifically evidence found all over the world. Synchronizing, Karma etc What I am trying to say is that science is just a man made theory which is used to explain natural phenomenon within our environmental or our Universe. Sometime, you just ought to try things in different methods.
I am not with any master degree. In fact, I graduated from an Economic School (Bach Degree), Management School (Bach Degree), Interior Design (Diploma), Cooking School (Diploma), my activities during my high school is tennis, badminton, concert band, drama club etc. I cannot say I am indeed have in depth knowledge of a kind. However, instead of looking deeper into one particular area. It might have helped me looking into a broader picture and more possibility to my life.
Again listening experience is rather personal taste and preference. I like to choose thing that is "happy to me" not the thing that is "Scientifically Proven to others". Which I always see many magazines use graphical and scientifically proven measurement, numbers blah blah to explain things which after I read them and went to a shop and have a listen. Mostly, they are not quite working to me or somehow very little audible. (And that I don't get the columnist why needs about 3-4 of pages of scientifically evidence convincing me by graphical and evidence number while in real life it would sound about 0%-5% in sonic performance changing (Improvement or not is another story.) I used to read the absolute sound and it just gave me headache, blah blah etc. As an Economic graduated student, of course I know "marketing spin" and would dare to say that I understand the mechanism of Demand and Supply, Marketing, And event predict their possible margins as well.
Again, I don't just image, I listen, and I do study quite well, before I make purchase. I listen to a hi-fi system with A-B test with and without the accesory or A-B cables test before I buy things. Although I did that still there could be some mistake. This might have to do with different in time, place, my body condition, system setup, condition of currents, etc (including things that people still cannot find theory to explaining them).
When you love someone who is not your relative, you would know that you love her. Do you need a scientifically proven or explanation first? Before you can claim that it is right to love her? or Do you need any reason to love someone?
I think this is very obvious to many couple those who end up being happily together without understanding why (Different background, Different Perspective, etc) Some, might said that those are not love, he just consumed by her charming.
Well, when you do love someone, it is you and only you who know it(or perhaps her too due to you and her somehow connected to each other) May I ask that, is there a proper scientific way to prove that a person is loving a person?
I only want to suggest that you should try things on your own and don't quickly draw a conclusion. Give it several different way of testing. There might be some thing new for us to learn (always).
To The Smokester
I just think that a flat plate of high purity silver might just sound better due to a broader bandwidth. And you might not want to quickly come up with some theory to conclude why this thing sound better. It might sound better but, might not be from the theory you mentioned.
To BE718
Are you sure you have helped bat, Did you somehow communicate with them to confirm that their problem is gone. It might be you and your guy problem is gone. However, their changing in behavior doesn't mean you can conclude that you have helped removing a noise problem to them. In the opposite you might just add more problem to them and they just might cannot do anything apart from response in the way that make you less involved to their living. (Did a bat said to you "Thank you I felt much better you helped me about those noise" I assumed "No") and whatever Number your scientific device measurement outcome was, you cannot 100% guarantee that you have helped any animals. Because, what you can only do is to make your own conclusion out of your own knowledge and understanding of Engineer or Spicy (That human again conclude that they know something). This is because it is not included any proper opinion confirmation from the animal. (Unless you have some supernatural ability talking & communicating with the animal??) Human logic and Animal Logic might be completely difference. There is no way we can ensure that we know anything or everything, human might have only seen only 5% of a big picture of our Universe and assume that we can make some conclusions. Anyway, I think we do not do that. We just develop a theory to somehow explain natural phenomenon only.
Thank You for any comment
And Hope I am not saying things too much out of scope of this forum since BE718 mentioned that this forum scientific proven is a King
My will is to share some thing goods to others. I am not expecting anyone to believe me but hope you may try things and finding out for yourself.
Cheers! to All
SN
There is now.
Are you an Entreq Dealer?
https://www.google.com/search?q=Shi...hrome&ie=UTF-8#q=Shinfox1980&start=0&filter=0
OP
- Thread Starter
- #386
Maybe. We don't have that here. In this case, audio science clearly explains what this device does. And importantly why people think they hear an improvement when there is none. In other words, audio science explains both subjective and objective observations.
All we have to do to match those two observations according to science, is to remove the knowledge that this device is added to the system. Once there, no one will be able to tell it made any difference.
In summary there is no mystery here. Only improper evaluation of audio effects by people who don't realize how much their other senses beside their ears, confuse what they think they are hearing.
Hi SN
To be clear about the bats it was not me that drew the conclusions regarding the effect on them. A zoologist studied their behaviour in the presence of industrial noise. My role was to measure the noise to quantify it (including ultrasonic content) which disturbs their echo location. I also generated representative noise including ultrasonic content so the zoologist could check if their behaviour changed.
Science, measurement and no guesswork.
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I find it interesting when people admit no knowledge of electronics, then go on to claim there are things in the simple field of audio that we don't know or can measure.
We can measure things no one can hear, we can measure things no one can see, we can measure things no one can taste, and things no one can feel. Yet, they cling to their senses as some sort of a self superiority over measurements.
Typically, they can not separate their limited senses of how they interpret the universe to how measurements go so far past anything their senses could ever hope to "measure" in the universe. They are the ones limited, calling the measurements limited. Oh dear, the fantasy of the unbelievers.
Yet we on this forum always acknowledge that nothing trumps personal preference so we don't have much reason to argue any of it, as its kind of boring really IMO.
We can measure things no one can hear, we can measure things no one can see, we can measure things no one can taste, and things no one can feel. Yet, they cling to their senses as some sort of a self superiority over measurements.
Typically, they can not separate their limited senses of how they interpret the universe to how measurements go so far past anything their senses could ever hope to "measure" in the universe. They are the ones limited, calling the measurements limited. Oh dear, the fantasy of the unbelievers.
Yet we on this forum always acknowledge that nothing trumps personal preference so we don't have much reason to argue any of it, as its kind of boring really IMO.
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The Smokester
Active Member
Dear Shinfox1980,
Thank you for reading my post #373 above. I just want you to know that post is merely my attempt at frustrated humor and has little to no basis in science.
Best wishes, The Smokester
Thank you for reading my post #373 above. I just want you to know that post is merely my attempt at frustrated humor and has little to no basis in science.
Best wishes, The Smokester
OP
- Thread Starter
- #390
You are letting out all of our secrets in our posts!
Nightlord
Active Member
A company like this makes me rather ashamed to know it's from my area... Guess I can't complain on the hifi stands, though.. but the rest. It's not from any place special either, it's a small countryside town that no one really cares about, pretty surprised about the whereabouts actually. Probably been within a few hundred yards from it without having an idea. Hope the guy I bought my previous PJ screen from didn't work for them, I picked that one up on the town hill not that far from there.
Street not big enough for street view to have run, so this is the "best" zoom in I can get. Seems to be the low red building on the left hand side and it seems shared with others too. An old tv-radio store there before perhaps?
<pic removed as it was obviously a mistake by google maps>
Street not big enough for street view to have run, so this is the "best" zoom in I can get. Seems to be the low red building on the left hand side and it seems shared with others too. An old tv-radio store there before perhaps?
<pic removed as it was obviously a mistake by google maps>
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I traced their address here:
https://www.google.com/maps/@56.180...4!1siXyblBfALFF8opTZ_wkeoQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
https://www.google.com/maps/@56.180...4!1siXyblBfALFF8opTZ_wkeoQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
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Nightlord
Active Member
Looks like you debunked a mistake in google maps. Well, never mind the above then. I've still definitely passed close by on occasion, though.
And so now someone has dropped the box and is marketing the antenna directly ...
https://walkeraudio.com/?product=eliminator-directional-antennae
https://walkeraudio.com/?product=eliminator-directional-antennae
watchnerd
Grand Contributor
why so much $ for jacks with unshielded wires in between?
Well more noise does certainly give the impression of better stereo so they will work, just not doing what people are saying.
Speedskater
Major Contributor
While that silly antenna thing doesn't do anything, audiophile's sometimes prefer a system with more background noise. The noise may add what seems to be more definition or sparkle to the audiophile. But it will depend on what the noise is and it's amplitude.
Back to the antenna thing. Connected to the negative speaker terminal on most amps it won't do anything. Well there are a few amps that it could act as an interference antenna, but it will increase the interference not cancel it. Something like this antenna connected to a RCA chassis connector that has a plastic insulator ring could well increase interference.
Back to the antenna thing. Connected to the negative speaker terminal on most amps it won't do anything. Well there are a few amps that it could act as an interference antenna, but it will increase the interference not cancel it. Something like this antenna connected to a RCA chassis connector that has a plastic insulator ring could well increase interference.
You can sell anything to a crowd who argues incessantly about the sonic superiority of LPS vs SMPS for their DAC and the importance of the fundamental nature of -120dB jitter so they can feed the purest signal possible into their favorite >1% THD tubes.
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All of this points out the problem of no references in audio. Some things need defining as correct and good fidelity. Make something that sounds different......well no reason for celebration or acting as if it is automatically better. Simply means it is not up to reference level performance.
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