Hi Don
just came across this wonderful system, hope you're still enjoying it. I noticed you are using 4 subs and i'm considering going from 2 to 4. I currently have two f113v2s and for space and money considerations would like to add either the f112s or f110s. Integration would be done using the new AVM90 with ARC Genesis (when available). Did you notice a substantial improvement going from 2 to 4 and how important would it be, generally speaking, that all 4 subs have the same performance capabilities? and happy new year
Yes, I am, when I have time! And Happy New Year to you, too!
My room is not large, is sealed, and has relatively poor dimensions for room modes. I probably could have repositioned the two to improve the response, but going to four allowed me to position them front and rear so as to effectively cover ("cancel") room modes for much better in-room response (still nothing like some of the gorgeous plots others have shown). Output was never an issue, but the quartet allowed me to counter a couple of big nulls, and four small subs in my room are easier to place and less obtrusive than a couple of monster subs.
There are several considerations when mixing subs IME/IMO. How easy/hard it is depends somewhat upon the flexibility of the correction program (e.g. room correction like Audyssey or Dirac Live, or external/supplemental DSP like miniDSP or Antimode, or even analog EQ like Marchand's BASSIS), flexibility in sub and listener positions, and of course the room itself. If you cannot place them reasonably, they may not help. Here are a few things to consider (that may or may not apply to you -- I am not terribly familiar with the JL line, have not looked in years):
- Sealed and ported subs typically have much different output characteristics around and below the port tuning frequency, with differing phase and amplitude curves for each. May not be "too" hard well above the port tuning frequency, but around and below you need independent phase control to successfully integrate them.
- Subs with different output capability are problematic, natch, since at the loudest the set can achieve you'll be overdriving the "lesser" or underutilizing the "greater" sub(s). Some folk put the "lesser" sub closer to help reduce the difference in amplitude capability.
- Using Welti's or Geddes' (etc.) guidelines for placement you can optimize the in-room response -- if you have the placement and control flexibility to take advantage of that. Integrating more than a couple, or even more than one, is more work but can offer substantial improvements in bass response.
I am using four Rythmik F12's, which are fairly small 12" sealed subs (I have a bias toward sealed and wanted smaller boxes), and of course pretty much identical in response. Rythmik intentionally tunes their line so the subs have similar frequency response across the line so mixing different models of sealed or ported is a little easier.
Thanks for your listening impressions. But I'm confused a bit on what you compared... it was the revels with the 1988 MG-IIIa's, not with the newer 3.7i's - right(?)
Or did the short-listed speakers get compared?
Also, what are the dimensions of the listening room?
Correct. I have not heard the 3.7i, though I find it hard to believe the sonic signature is very different (the new panel structure should have lower distortion and perhaps a little greater output).
I had to dig to find my "short list"; I have heard many speakers over the years, but did far less in-person listening this time due to lack of time and limited availability in my area. I got a great deal on the Salon2's so had to move a little quickly, but frankly with my job and life situation the type of listening trials I did in the past weren't going to happen regardless.
Of the ones listed above, I never heard the M2s (though heard 4367s very briefly), did hear Magnepan 3.6/3.7 (before the "i" version IIRC), never heard Salk, have heard Sanders (and many other) ESLs in the past but not recently, and was able to hear the Revel Studio, F208, and F206 at a local dealer (they did not have the Salon2 in stock that I recall). They were in different rooms, different electronics, etc. so direct comparisons were not made. I am familiar with and heard fairly recently (at that time) several B&W and Martin-Logan models plus a few others that did not stand out to me (e.g. Focal, pushed by a local dealer).
Room is 13'3" W x 17'7" L x 8'5" high with front speakers (and a 65" TV) along the width. I have an SDP-75 processor (rebadged Trinnov Altitude), couple of Emotiva amps (original gen 1 XPA-2 and XPA-5), a Comcast cable box, a SONOS Connect, and an Oppo UDP-203. Current speaker line-up includes six Salon2's and a Voice2.
I am currently in the process of installing height speakers (four Revel M80XC); probably be a bit yet. Have most of the pieces but getting mounts up and such is taking a lot of time. I had planned to do this last spring, then over summer, then finally during Thanksgiving week, but work intervened so when I finally got time off over Christmas I planned to install everything last week. Didn't happen though I made a start of it.
I had to pull several ceiling panels and reposition things; it is unfortunate that the recommended height positions conflict with first reflection points for the fronts and rears, so I'll see how it works out. I am also having second thoughts about the height amplifiers, a pair of Crown XLi800's. They were inexpensive, and way more power than I need for heights, but I am nervous about noise (hiss and fan) and lack of a trigger input. Reviews on the 'net have been mixed, and of course Amir did not recommend them for home use. They are still in boxes so I may ship them back and look at a four-channel class D amp, but OTOH may pull them out if I can get the speakers plumbed this weekend to try them out. The other smaller (lower-power) amps I found in the month or so before Christmas were all lacking in some way (and/or simply unavailable), and I did not really want to spend $2k or more for height speaker amps. I would like a trigger input, decently low noise since the speakers are close'ish, and only need ~100 W/ch. Thinking about a
@Buckeye Amps 4-ch amp using P252 modules; that was actually my first choice, but they are not going to be available until later this month last I read, and at the time I was thinking I could get things up over Thanksgiving (ended up working every day that week including the weekend due to a last-minute crisis).
HTH - Don
